John Walter Lee

[kiterunner]

Banns were called at St Mary, Islington, London, on the 10th, 17th and 24th Oct 1875 for the marriage of John Walter Lee and Bertha Flora Grzinish, which took place on the 8th Jan 1876 at that church.
John was full age, a bachelor, clerk, abode Alma Road, father Robert Lee, civil engineer. Bertha full age, spinster, abode 145 Offord Road, father Philip Grzinish, jeweller. Witnesses Henry Billey and Henry Smith.

On the 1881 census Bertha is married, age 25, born London, living with her parents Philip and Ester Grzenish in Islington. She has three children, Lillie 5, Fredk 3 and Mirriam 16 months (?), all born London.

1891 36 Horsell Road, Islington
Bertha Lee Head Wid 33 Own means London
Fred Do Son 12 Scholar Do
Lilian Do Daur 14 Milliner Apprentice Do
Marion Do Daur 11 Scholar Do
Bessie Young Serv S 16 Do
Eliza Saunders Lodger M 40 NK

1901 think this is her with a family called James, nothing filled in for relationship to head:
20 Cathcart Hill, Islington Bertha Lee Wid NK (50) Own means London

And in 1911 at 138 Delaware Mansions, Maida Vale, London:
Mrs Bertha Lee Head 54 Widow 3 children, 3 living, Domestic At Home, born Houndsditch London, private means. 4 rooms in house.

Death registered Jan-Mar 1935 Hammersmith, Bertha Lee age 80, corresponds to this 1935 National Probate Calendar entry:
LEE Bertha of 31 Digby-mansions Hammersmith Middlesex widow died 30 January 1935 at the West London Hospital Hammersmith Probate London 14 March to Lilian Sutcliffe (wife of Hornby Sutcliffe). Effects £239 3s 6d.

But can anyone see what happened to John Walter Lee?

[kiterunner]

On the 1935 London e roll is a Hornby Windsor Sutcliffe with a Lilian Towerzey. In 1931 they also have a Gladys Towerzey with them. In 1930 Lilian's surname is Sutcliffe. Hornby Windsor Sutcliffe died in 1935 leaving a lot of money with probate granted to a bank.

On the 1911 census there is a Lily Towerzey age 38, married, not known how many years, no children, no birth place shown, visiting a family called Groves in Paddington, London. There is a Gladys Lilian Towerzey birth registered in Jan-Mar 1903 Paddington. And Gladys Towerzy age 8, born London, is at school in Clacton on Sea, Essex. Guess what? I can't find a marriage between a Towerzey and a Lily or Lilian, or a birth of a Lily / Lilian Towerzey. I'm thinking that Lilian Towerzey is Lillie Lee and should be married to a Mr Towerzey.

[Shona]

Having little success tracking down John Walter Lee.

There is a chap by that name who appears in court in Manchester in 1880 charged with attempting to commit suicide. He is described as a gentleman from London.

On the London electoral registers:

Walter John Lee, 1873, Holloway Road
Walter John Lee, 1875, Chalfont Road
Walter John Lee, 1876, Holloway Road
Walter John Lee, 1877, Chalfont Road

As a civil engineer, he may have worked abroad.

[kiterunner]

It's his father who was a civil engineer, Shona. John is a "clerk" on his marriage. I'll have a look at the court records, thanks for looking.

[kiterunner]

The John Walter Lee in the court records is a Solicitor, age 27, so could well have been a solicitor's clerk in 1876 and qualified as a solicitor between then and 1880. There is a John Walter Lee birth registration Jan-Mar 1852 Lambeth which could be him.

[Shona]

Ooops. Misread the info on the teeny phone screen.

[kiterunner]

Ah, there are some newspaper reports about his attempted suicide - "The police had corresponded with the prisoner's relatives in London, but no reply had been received." Seems to fit!

[kiterunner]

"And in explanation of this the accused said it was hardly likely they would reply, as he was not on friendly terms with them."

[kiterunner]

His address is Tottington Park, London, in one of the newspaper reports. But there doesn't seem to be such a place? Maybe supposed to be Torrington Park which is in North London.

[kiterunner]

1881 census at 76 Liverpool Road, Islington, with a family called Harding:
John W Lee Boarder Mar 29 Solrs Manag Clerk Lambeth.

[Shona]

Looking good...

[kiterunner]

But I can't find him after that! Nor his death.

[kiterunner]

Have found some public trees on ancestry with this family on and they don't have John's death, but I have managed to find a parish register entry for one of Miriam's marriages (in 1918, Miriam Van de Water, widow, married Wilfred Vere Doughty) where she gives her father's name as Robert Lee, gentleman, and a Sutcliffe is one of the witnesses.

The reason I'm researching this family is that my 2xg-grandfather, Walter Horner Brown, left the following bequest in his will written in 1914, in the list of annuities he was leaving, after £250 per annum to his daughter and before annuities of £50 per annum to his nieces:
To Mrs Bertha Lee of 42 Sutherland Avenue Widow an annuity of five pounds per calendar month during her life.

There is a Sutherland Avenue in Maida Vale, so I reckon that Mrs Bertha Lee is the one in post #1, wife / widow of John Walter Lee. I always thought Mrs Bertha Lee must be a retired very long-standing employee, either domestic servant or maybe working for his company, or possibly a relative of his wife, but now I don't think so!

I can't see either of this Bertha's parents, Philip Grzimish and Esther, who died 1889 and 1884 respectively, in the National Probate Calendar, and nothing for John Walter Lee, and Bertha doesn't have an occupation on any of the censuses, so I wonder how she was managing to support herself and three children, plus keep a servant, from "private means". What do you think, could she have been my 2xg-grandfather's "kept woman"?

[Shona]

John Walter Lee's father was named as Robert Lee, civil engineer, when he married Bertha. If Bertha and the children were estranged from John, then there may have been some confusion and, as a result, a mistake was made and Bertha's father was named instead of John.

I found this discussion about the Grzinish family on Rootschat.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,376408.0.html

[Shona]

If Bertha was a 'kept' woman, then Miriam did very well for herself when she married Wilfred Doughty, son of George Doughty, wealthy trawler owner and MP.

[kiterunner]

That's an interesting thread on RootsChat, thanks, Shona. I wonder whether Alfred Lee is the same person as Frederick Lee (son of Bertha). I shall have another go at tracing him now!

[Shona]

I've done quite a bit of research on the Doughty family of Grimsby.

Miriam's husband and the son of George Doughty MP, Wilfred Doughty, collected model boats, some of which are on display in Grimsby. The museum, where his model boats were originally displayed, was opened by his widow, MV Doughty, in 1958.

I had read the article below before. Now I know exactly who Wilfred's widow was!

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/Museum-decked-fine-models/story-11547271-detail/story.html#axzz2ZskjODeB

[kiterunner]

Fancy that! (I mean the article you posted, Shona. Small world!)

I've found Alfred Robert Lee's army papers on FMP and he gives his next of kin as mother Bertha of No 1 Flat, 20 Cathcart Hill and 2 sisters Lillian and Miriam. So he must be Fred from the censuses.

[Shona]

Grrrr - John Walter Lee is proving very elusive!

Bertha's family are a lot more obliging. I wonder if following Bertha's siblings may give some clues to her independent means. You'll have details of her family, but I'll type it up here in case anyone else feels inspired to do some digging.

- Levi Grzymisch and brother Gedalia, alien arrivals, from Prussia, 17 June 1839. Profession, leather maker.

- Gedalia, alien arrival, native of Germany, merchant (?), 18 March 1844.

1861 Houndsditch

Phillip Grzimish, head, 43, jeweller, Prussia
Ester Grzimish, wife, 36, Prussia
Julia Grzimish, dau, 9, scholar, Finsbury
Israel Grzimish, son, 7, scholar, Finsbury
Bertha Grzimish, dau, 5, scholar, Aldgate
Rebecca Grzimish, dau, 4, scholar, Aldgate
Samuel Grzimish, son, 2, Aldgate
Bernard Grzimish, son, 3 mo, Aldgate
Mildred Mile, nursemaid, unmarried, 22, Stepney
Maria England, general servant, unmarried, 22, Ireland
Charles Semel (?), nephew, 17, jeweller's assistant, Prussia

Philip Grizimish in Houndsditch on London Land Tax records from 1865-1871.

1871 Houndsditch
Philip, 53, Posen, Prussia
Esther, 46, Posen, Prussia
Julia, 19, Finsbury
Isidore, 17, scholar, Finsbury
Bertha, 15, scholar, St Botolph
Rebecca, 14, scholar, St Botolph
Samuel, 12, scholar, St Botolph
Baron, 10, scholar, St Botolph
Adelaide, 8, scholar, St Botolph
Kate O'Driscoll, 40, unmarried, general servant, Ireland

[kiterunner]

I still think that if my ancestor left her an annuity of £5 per month, he must have been paying her an income or paying her bills before he died?

[kiterunner]

Deceased Online has the burial of a John Walter Lee 10 Sep 1930 at Islington Cemetery. There is a death registered Jul-Sep 1930 John W Lee, Islington, age 75.

This is the National Probate Calendar entry:
1930
LEE John Walter of 50 Quinn Buildings Popham-street Islington Middlesex died 4 September 1930 at Highgate Hospital Highgate Middlesex Probate London 27 September to Jessie Margaret Dale (wife of Frederick Dale). Effects £24.

[kiterunner]

Marriage Jan-Mar 1930 Islington - Frederick Dale / Jessie M Boby.

[kiterunner]

And a marriage Jul-Sep 1912 Islington - Charles Boby / Jessie M Clapham. They are on the 1920 roll together at 290 Essex Rd, Islington and then in 1921 just Jessie. Charles Boby died in 1921 age 65. There is a Jessie M Dale death Oct-Dec 1959 Islington, age 81.

Marriage 25 Aug 1900 Islington St Peter between Ernest Clapham and Jessie Margaret Hutchison. He is 25, bachelor, clerk, residence Queen's Head Street Board School, father John Clapham, caretaker. She is 21, spinster (thank goodness!) 103 Arlington Street, father John Peter Hutchison deceased, engraver. Witnesses John Clapham and Lucy Helen Hutchison.

Got to go and eat now - will try to work out how she is connected to John Walter Lee later in the hope it might prove whether or not he is the same John Walter Lee!

[Shona]

So Walter Horner Brown wasn't related to Bertha Lee in any way?

It's very intruiging.

[kiterunner]

So Walter Horner Brown wasn't related to Bertha Lee in any way?



Both her parents were German, and there is no German connection in Walter's family, so I don't think so. I have loads on his family and I haven't found anything leading to her. I might order Bertha's will and John Walter Lee's will (when I've done some more checking) to see if there is any mention of anyone I have heard of in them, though if JWL only left £24 I don't suppose there are many people mentioned in his - maybe he just wanted to make sure Bertha didn't get her hands on a penny of his money! If the JWL who died in 1930 is the right one, of course.

[kiterunner]

1901 126 Hornsey Prk, Wood Green, Middlesex
Ernest Clapham Head M 26 Shipping Clerk London Islington
Jessie Do Wife M 21 Do Do
Nina Freudenthiel Visitor 12 Herts Wealdstone

1911 6 St Ann's Road, Hornsey, Middlesex
John Henry Hutchison Head 38 Married Goods Porter London Clerkenwell
Caroline Hutchison Wife 38 Married 11 yrs 4 children 3 living 1 dead London Islington
Ethel Hutchison Daughter 10 Single London Islington
Harry Hutchison Son 5 London Islington
Jessie Clapham Sister 31 Widow (Married crossed out!) 10 years, 2 children, 2 living Charring London Islington
Gladys Clapham Daughter 9 School Middlesex Hornsey
Leslie Clapham Son 8 School Middlesex Hornsey.

In 1891 there is a Jessie M Hutchinson age 10 born London Islington, "fatherless" in some kind of boarding school at 18 Pemberton Road, Islington.

1881 at 19 Hardinge St, Islington:
John P Hutchison Head Mar 36 General Engraver Middx London
Emily Do Wife Do 35 Somerset Bath
Emily A C Do Daur 13 Scholar Middx London
Mary K Do Do 11 Do Do Do
Lucy H Do Do 9 Do Do Do
John H Do Son 6 Do Do Do
Robert N Do 4 Do Do Do
Jessie M Do Daur 1

So I'm not sure how Jessie is connected to John Walter Lee either! But I think he is probably the same John Walter Lee. I suppose he should be on the censuses if he didn't die till 1930 - I didn't look too hard before because I thought he was supposed to be dead by 1891!

[kiterunner]

Oh, on the 1930 London e roll, Frederick Dale and Jessie Margaret Dale are at 50 Quinns Buildings, Popham Street, also at that address in 1929 as Frederick Dale and Jessie Boby. This is the address given for John Walter Lee on the National Probate Calendar. But he isn't listed there on the e roll.

[kiterunner]

I've ordered both Bertha's and John Walter Lee's wills, though I'm still not sure whether it's the same John Walter Lee. I had 15 credits to use up on Deceased Online so I viewed the grave info for his burial and it is a communal grave.

[kiterunner]

I've received the two wills but they don't seem to contain anything to help. John Walter Lee's will was supposedly written in 1908 (think this is a typo for 1928) and names Jessie Margaret Boby as the beneficiary of his life assurance policies dated 28/6/1926 and 10/10/1927. F Dale, later to be Jessie Margaret's husband, is one of the witnesses. The other one is Leslie Frost Clapham. Executrix Jessie Margaret Dale ... wife of Frederick Dale formerly Boby spinster. That made me laugh! (Her maiden name was Hutchison and she was married to Ernest Clapham and then Charles Boby before Frederick Dale.) There is no mention of any relatives.

Bertha Lee's will is quite difficult to decipher; I'll post it up in a little while when I've typed it out.

[kiterunner]

In His Majesty's High Court of Justice.
The Principal Probate Registry.
BE IT KNOWN that Bertha Lee of 31 Digby Mansions Hammersmith in the county of Middlesex formerly of 49 Holland Park Notting Hill Gate in the said county widow died on the 30th day of January 1935 at West London Hospital Hammersmith aforesaid
AND BE IT FURTHER KNOWN that at the date hereunder written the last Will and Testament (a copy whereof is hereunto annexed) of the said deceased was proved and registered in the Principal Probate Registry of His Majesty's High Court of Justice and that Administration of all the Estate which by law devolves to and vests in the personal representative of the said deceased was granted by the aforesaid Court to Lilian Sutcliffe of 15 Bridge Avenue Mansions Hammersmith aforesaid (wife of Hornby Sutcliffe) daughter of deceased one of the Executors named in the said Will. Power reserved to the other Executrix.
And it is hereby certified that an Affidavit for Inland Revenue has been delivered wherein it is shewn that the gross value of the said Estate ... amounts to £39-3-6. Dated the 14th day of March 1935.
I Bertha Lee of 49 Holland Park Notting Hill Gate London widow declare this to be my last Will I appoint my daughters Maud Ver Doughty and Lilian Sutcliffe my Executrices I bequeath to my daughter Lilian my diamond earrings(?) my gold chain braclet gold coins and diamond padlock to my son now residing in Canada my gold signet ring to his wife my large ring(?) to his daughter [name removed in case she is still living] my small miniature ring to my Granddaughter Gladys my large blue str(?) ring to my said daughter Lilian my Chippendale table and to my daughter Maud all my furniture not otherwise bequeathed and as to all the rest of my property I give the same to my said two daughters in equal shares In witness whereof I have hereto set my hand to this my Will this fourteenth day of ??? one thousand nine hundred and twenty seven. Bertha Lee
I can't make out the name of the first witness. Could possibly say John Bennett. The second one is Ronald W Cooper, medical student.