William Edward Fleming

[elite61]

Can anyone help? I am trying to trace a lost relative, William Fleming born 1890. I have a marriage certificate for a marriage to Emily Clode in 1917 in Hambleden, Guildford. He was a sapper in 15th Co of C ? & Pioneer. His address is given as Witley Camp Guildford Surrey UK. I cannot find anything about him and think maybe he was Canadian or American as I have found his wife on ocean liners to both countries. Where can I get the army records for this camp? Any help would be appreciated.

[kiterunner]

Does the marriage cert give his father's name and occupation, please? And is William's age 27 on the cert? If you can scan it in and post up the bit with William's occupation we may be able to help decipher the name of the army company. It seems likely that he was Canadian as Witley Camp was set up by the Canadian army according to Wikipedia.

[kiterunner]

I think this could be him but the year of birth is a bit out from what you said:
Canadian Soldiers of the First World War (http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=389233&interval=20&&PHPSESSID=3eesae3aan5hecr00uppbaots5)

You can view images of the attestation form on there.

If this is him then he was born and lived in North Dakota USA but joined the Canadian army.

[elite61]

That was quick!! Thanks. Yes he is 27 on the cert. Father William Fleming (deceased) Railway Mechanic. Unfortunatley I don't have a scanner

[elite61]

I think it says 15th Co of C & E Pioneer

[kiterunner]

This must be Emily travelling to the US in 1927:
passenger list on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7488/NYT715_4170-0130/2004027530?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co .uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dnypl%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26rank% 3d0%26gsfn%3demily%26gsln%3dflem*ing%26sx%3d%26gs1 co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26y ear%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0% 26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%2 6prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

The SS Ile de France sailing from Le Havre to New York, 9 Nov 1927, arriving 15 Nov 1927, Emily Fleming age 36, female, widow, passport issued California, naturalized by marriage Guelfird Sussey (sic) Sept 6th 1917, address in US Pasadena Cal 320 Vaverley Drive (sic).

[kiterunner]

So on the 1930 US census, Emily Fleming is at 320 Waverley Drive, Pasadena, California, a servant age 39, divorced, born England, immigrated to US 1919, naturalized by marriage, occupation cook.

[Shona]

There's an Emily Fleming in Pasadena in 1930, working as a cook, from England. However, it says she is divorced.

Edit: Snap!

[Shona]

I don't recall seeing this on census forms. I think this is Emily in 1901 - illegitimate daughter of Martha Jeffery.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/LNDRG13_497_498-0171/3737368?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry .co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253fdb%253duki1901%2526so%253d2%25 26pcat%253dROOT_CATEGORY%2526rank%253d1%2526new%25 3d1%2526MSAV%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%253dangs-g%2526gsfn%253dEmily%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%25 3dClode%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526cpxt%253d1%2526catBu cket%253drstp%2526uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults


Camberwell
George Jeffery, 30
Martha Jeffery, 27
Rose Jeffery, 3
Emily Clode, 10, illegitimate daughter, born Paddington

[elite61]

Yes Emily Fleming nee Clode is my aunt. I didn't know of her existance until I started to trace my family tree. She was illegitimate and obviously not talked about. I too have found her in Pasadena also that she died in 1969 in Denver Colorado. If she was naturalized by marriage then this must mean that William was American? Where do I go from here?

[Shona]

Going back to William Edward Fleming - his papers show he was a carpenter who enlisted with the 5th Oversees Pioneer Battalion. on 14 August 1916 in Montreal He was Catholic, born in Jamestown, North Dakota, on 26 August 1887, and had served for six years in the US army. Next of kin was a cousin named E E Edwards in Jamestown.

Interesting that Emily says she is divorced in the 1930 census, considering her husband was Catholic.

This is a famous propaganda poster for the Canadian Pioneers.

http://www.ww1propaganda.com/ww1-poster/build-anything-fight-anything-5th-overseas-pioneer-battalion-cef

[kiterunner]

The only trace of a William Fleming in Jamestown, North Dakota, that I have found so far is a 1912 city directory of Jamestown. It doesn't show his occupation though. There is also a John Fleming and a Jas E Flemming listed there. I'll dig around some more and see if I can find anything else to help though. If we knew where they got divorced I guess you would be able to try to get to see the divorce papers.

William Edward Fleming's next of kin on the attestation papers is cousin E E Edwards of Jamestown, North Dakota. Maybe we can get somewhere following that up. Also William's occupation on those papers is carpenter.

(Edit - we were typing at the same time again, Shona!)

[kiterunner]

Interesting that Emily says she is divorced in the 1930 census, considering her husband was Catholic.




If it is the same William Edward Fleming - I don't think we are 100% sure of that yet, are we?

[Shona]

As his father was a railway mechanic, the family may have moved around.

[kiterunner]

There is an Edward Edwards in Jamestown, ND on the 1920 census but he is only 18. Father Oscar J Edwards born Ohio, age 52, mother born England but she isn't with the family. There are sisters Clara 20 and Flora 15.

[kiterunner]

In 1910 Oscar Edwards' wife is Hannah born Canada, parents born Scotland. Of course we don't know whether this is the right Edwards family.

[Shona]

If it is the same William Edward Fleming - I don't think we are 100% sure of that yet, are we?

The marriage cert says he was a Sapper in the Pioneers and the military record is the only William Fleming who joined the Pioneers.

I've not gone through all 80 matches on Ancestry - I excluded those born too early or too late, those with different middle names and those with a father not named William.

The 5th Pioneer Battalion were also based at Witley Camp.

[Shona]

In 1910 Oscar Edwards' wife is Hannah born Canada, parents born Scotland. Of course we don't know whether this is the right Edwards family.

I've researched some Scottish Flemings. The branch I've looked at were planted into Campbeltown and many subsequently emigrated to Canada.

Did you notice that WEF had an American flag tattoo?

[kiterunner]

Did you notice that WEF had an American flag tattoo?

Yes, I saw that. I've been looking at records for people going from Canada to the US but found nothing so far. I did see an adopted son William Edwards in Jamestown ND on the 1910 census but he was too young to be the William who we're looking for.

[kiterunner]

It seems we have looked into these people before, so it may be worth reading through the old thread:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=9823&highlight=clode

[Shona]

Jamestown, North Dakota, was founded in 1871, when a Northern Pacific Railroad work crew set up camp where the railroad would cross the James River.

The associated railroad repair yard was one of the city's main industries until the 1960s - so it may be that William Fleming senior settled in ND.

Population in 2000 was 15,527 people - 96.84% white, 0.36% African American, 1.21% Native American, 0.49% Asian, 0.05% Pacific Islander, 0.27% from other races and 0.78% from two or more races.

The top six ancestry groups in the city are German (54.0%), Norwegian (22.4%), Irish (9.0%), English (6.6%), Swedish (4.1%), Russian (3.8%). Many area families cite their heritage as "Germans from Russia", in reference to ethnic Germans who settled in the Russian Empire in the 18th century, many of whose descendents emigrated to the United States in the late 19th century.

[Shona]

There is a North Dakota Historical Society:

http://www.history.nd.gov/index.html

I wonder if they have railway records in their archives?

[kiterunner]

I don't think this is going to be of much help, but just so we have it - Oscar Edwards' wife on the 1910 census, Hannah, wasn't the mother of Edward Edwards. The mother was Mary Lindmeyer who married Oscar J Edwards 7 Oct 1896 at Butte, Silver Bow, Montana, age 26. Oscar's parents were Joseph Edwards and Martha J McKee, and Mary's parents were Joseph Lindmeyer and Mary Sladick. On the 1900 census Oscar's parents' birthplaces are Pennsylvania and Indiana, and Mary's parents both born Austria.

So William Edward Fleming's cousin E E Edwards may or may not be related to one of these people!