Anyone spot this marriage on familysearch please

[Glen TK]

I'm really struggling to go back beyond this marriage for parents etc via the census

Maria Holt to Thomas Turner, Sheffield 1868

The '71 onwards gives a dob for Maria of c1851, Walsall and c1847, Birmingham for Thomas but trying to pinpoint them earlier than '71 is proving impossible. there doesn't appear to be a birth ref for Maria in that timeframe within Staffordshire and several options for Thomas in Birmingham.

Children of the marriage are as follows;


Sarah Ann, b. 1870. Walsall

Samuel 1872, Sheffield, South Yorks

Mary Ann, 1874 Sheffield

Clara 1877 Sheffield

John William 1880 Sheffield

Walter, 1883 Sheffield,

Thomas 1887 Sheffield

Annie 1890 Sheffield

[ElizabethHerts]

12 Oct 1868

Thomas Turner Bachelor Carter
aged 21
Groom's father: Thomas Turner

Maria Holt Spinster
aged 18
Father: John Holt

St Luke, Hollis Croft, Sheffield

[ElizabethHerts]

This is Maria's family in 1861:

Piece: 2013
Folio: 146
Page: 11
Registration District: Walsall
Civil Parish: Walsall
Municipal Borough: Walsall
Address: 4, Court 4, New Street, Walsall
County: Staffordshire

Father John, Brass Dresser
Mother Maria
Siblings George, James and William.
A William Holt aged 59 widower with them.

[Glen TK]

Ooh thanks, I'll chase them through from that. it's my direct line (paternal great grandparents) but my first venture into that part of the world with the family.

[Glen TK]

Think there could be a Samuel inthe '61 too, the last line has two names squeezed in, looks like the William could be a William Heley, boarder. occ ??? tree maker

[Merry]

I think Samuel is aged 4 (reg Q4 1856)

William Heley is a saddle tree maker.

[Glen TK]

Thanks Merry

Blowed if I can find the family earlier than '61 right now, lot's of Johns but never the right kids

[Glen TK]

Going on the '61 mum is Mary, I wonder if these are the kids?

Ann Maria Holt
christening: 21 December 1851 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents: John Holt, Mary Ann

William Holt
christening: 20 January 1850 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents: John Holt, Mary

James Holt
christening: 16 April 1854 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents: John Holt, Mary

[Glen TK]

And there is a Samuel and George who fit with the parents and census as above too;

Samuel Holt
christening: 28 December 1856 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents: John Holt, Mary

George Holt
christening: 24 January 1844 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents: John Holt, Mary

[Glen TK]

Births Dec 1851 (>99%)
Holt Ann Maria Walsall 17 281

[Glen TK]

1871 St Matthews, Walsall

John Holt 58
Mary Holt 55
Sarah Holt 32
James Holt 16
Samuel Holt 14
William Holt 19
Henry Faultlan 21

[Glen TK]

Mary Ann Holt
christening: 21 March 1841 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
death: 28 December 1842

Sarah Holt
christening: 24 May 1838 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND

[Glen TK]

1841? Walsall

John Holt 27
Mary Holt 24
Martha Holt 5
Sarah Holt 3
Mary Ann Halt 3 mo

Births Jun 1838
Holt Sarah Walsall 17 250

Martha Holt
christening: 25 March 1836 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents: John Holt, Mary

They keep creeping out the woodwork :(

[Glen TK]

Have I finally got back to the marriage?

Name: John Holt

Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Par

Event Date: 31 Jan 1836
Event Place: Saint Bartholomew,Wednesbury,Stafford,England

[Glen TK]

May as well thrpw this one on, matches approx dob in census and matches the place given as pob throughout too

John Rotheram Holt
christening: 24 April 1814 SAINT MATTHEW,WALSALL,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
Parents, William and Elizabeth

[Glen TK]

I've found several trees on Ancestry with Holt/Heeley marriages and Holt/Faultless marriages, both names crop up in the census returns I found last night.

Most seem to have a John b1813 being married to Mary Heeley which I can't find (pre 1837 record) and one even has his parents though mum was allegedly born 1802, by my reckoning that means she was 11 when she gave birth to John, it makes you wonder sometimes!!

Anyway, still no sign of the family in 1851 so there must be some horrid mistranscription of the name somewhere.

[kiterunner]

This is them in 1851, mistranscribed as Nott on ancestry (I will submit a correction):

New Strt, Walsall
John Holt Head Mar 36 Brass Dresser Staffordsh Walsall
Mary Holt Wife Mar 35 Wife Do Do
Sarah Holt Daugh U 12 Daur Do Do
Geoe Holt Son U 7 Son Do Do
William Holt Do U 1 Son Do Do
William Heeley Lodger Mar 58 Saddle Tree Rivetter Do Do
Sarah Heeley Wife 63 Do Do

1851 on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/STSHO107_2023_2023-1210/8631967?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3dwil*%26gsln%3d%2 6sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18__n%3d%26f12__ n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1850%26rs_81004011__dat e%3d2%26f27%3d%26f14%3dsta*%26f15%3dwal*%26_8000C0 02%3djohn%26_80008002%3dmar*%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3 d%26f8%3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1 851%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3dmp-uki1851%26gst%3d%26so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[Glen TK]

Thanks

I'm really confused with John and the marriage to Mary, a few Ancestry trees have John and Mary Heeley but the family search records I found seem to suggest otherwise, I think the only solution is to get the birth cert for Maria and a sibling ( Maria is my direct ancestor but given the bmd index suggests Ann Maria as the given name I want to be sure). That's going to have to wait until I'm back to work though which is frustrating.

[kiterunner]

What FamilySearch records suggest that the wife isn't Mary Heeley, please, Glen?

[Glen TK]

It's more that I'm very wary of what the trees show, there are two tree owners who have conflicting family groups using the surnames of boarders from different returns as the spouse, not so much there are records to suggest they are wrong but nothing to support what they claim. I've had a response from one tree owner who simply said they had copied it from another tree and neither they or the other tree owner have any certs.

I've pencilled in a family group using bmd, census and baptisms but will wait for the 1868 marriage cert for Maria then go for the 1851 birth cert in the name Ann Maria.

EDIT==

I'm working from a known event, the birth of Annie Turner, Sheffield 1890, dau of Thomas Turner and Maria Holt.