Shona
15-06-13, 13:03
From time to time, we dip into Irish genealogy - the hunt for the elusive John Claud Hamilton aka David Hutton is a recent example, as well as Julie's Limerick-born grandmother - are two recent examples.
Apart from the lack of census records, there are particular difficulties regarding the church records for South Tipperary and East Limerick.
In 1991, the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr Dermot Clifford, claimed copyright of all Catholic parish registers for the diocese (South Tipperary and parts of East Limerick) and stated that he was giving the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now the Tipperary Family History Research) exclusive rights to the registers.
The holders of microfilm copies - the National Library of Ireland and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints were ordered to withdraw the films from public access.
While the legal opinion was sought, no one was allowed to view the microfilms. The only way to get information was to pay.
The 23 other dioceses remained on unrestricted access.
In 2008, the National Library of Ireland removed access restrictions to its microfilm copies of Catholic parish registers. However, two bishops want to get the restrictions re-instated.
While the microfilms can be views at the National Library of Ireland in Dublin, as far as I can see, the information from the restricted areas isn't available on Family Search.
The only way to get the info, apart from a trip to Dublin, is to pay a minimum of 80 euros to Tipperary Family History Research.
To help people, I've copied the guide below from Irish Genealogy (Irish Government site).
WHAT CHURCH RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE?
From http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
1. Transcripts of baptism and marriage records of the RC Diocese of Kerry to c1900 - includes parishes in western and north-western areas of Co Cork.
2. Transcripts with images for all surviving 19th century CoI marriage, baptism and burial records in Co Kerry.
3. All RC baptism, marriage and burial registers for Dublin City, some parishes in transcript only (to c1900), some transcripts with images (to c1880). The records of St Paul's, Arran Quay, are not included. A transcript of its records can be found at http://dublinnorth.rootsireland.ie.
4. All surviving CoI marriage and burial registers for Dublin City, most of them transcripts with images to c1900.
5. All surviving CoI baptism, marriage and burial registers for Co Carlow, transcripts with images to c1900.
6. All RC baptism, marriage and burial registers (transcripts with images to c1880) for the diocese of Cork and Ross, which covers the south and west of the county and Cork City. Some of the records of Cork City (for the parishes of St Mary & St Anne, St Patrick's and Blackrock) aren't online.
7. A small number of Presbyterian records relating to a congregation in Lucan, Co Dublin (transcript only).
Work is progressing on the completion of the Co Monaghan Roman Catholic records (Diocese of Clogher).
Elsewhere:
1. www.rootsireland.ie: Pay site. Transcripts (without images) of most of the RC records on the island of Ireland for areas other than those listed above.
The major exceptions, where only small proportions of the records are transcribed, are counties Donegal, Monaghan and Wexford.
None of the transcribed records for Clare are online.
Each geographical area on the site has a 'sources list' and it is essential to consult this in order to ascertain precisely what records are being searched.
The site also includes transcripts of CoI, Methodist and Presbyterian registers, complete for some counties, completely absent for others.
2. www.familysearch.org: Free transcripts without images of approximately 30 Roman Catholic parishes, mostly in counties Kerry, Cork and Roscommon.
3. www.ancestry.co.uk. Subscription. Transcripts without images, of the registers of the diocese of Meath up to 1880, approximately 40 parishes, as well as a copy of the LDS transcripts.
4. Others: A significant number of local historical and family history societies have made transcripts of their church records available online. A guide to the Roman Catholic records is at: www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/
5. A large collection of Jewish records are online at the paying site www.irishjewishroots.com.
WHAT CHURCH RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE FOR RESEARCH OFFLINE?
1. The National Library of Ireland has microfilm copies of almost all pre-1880 RC parish registers on the island of Ireland. Access is free and print-outs of are allowed. See www.nli.ie
2. The LDS Family History Library has microfilm copies of about 40% of Irish RC parish registers, some copies of National Library of Ireland films, others filmed by the LDS themselves. See https://familysearch.org/catalog-search
3. Most local RC parishes don't allow research on their original records. Callers will normally be referred to the heritage centres whose records are now almost all on www.rootsireland.ie. If necessary, contact details for local parishes can be found via www.catholicireland.net
4. The Representative Church Body Library is the official archive of record for CoI records which survived the burning of the Public Record Office in 1922. A full list of its holdings is at http://ireland.anglican.org. All are freely searchable if they aren't too fragile to be handled.
5. The Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (www.proni.gov.uk) has freely available microfilm copies of almost all surviving records of all denominations for areas now in Northern Ireland, as well as a good number for areas in the border counties of Donegal, Cavan, Leitrim, Monaghan and Louth. A full list is at http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/online_indexes/church_of_ireland_index.htm.
6. Quaker records are very comprehensive back to the 17th century, with microfilm copies in NLI and PRONI. See www.quakers-in-ireland.ie
7. Some Presbyterian records are only available locally or in the Presbytrerian Historical Society. See www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com
Apart from the lack of census records, there are particular difficulties regarding the church records for South Tipperary and East Limerick.
In 1991, the new Archbishop of Cashel & Emly, Dr Dermot Clifford, claimed copyright of all Catholic parish registers for the diocese (South Tipperary and parts of East Limerick) and stated that he was giving the Tipperary Heritage Unit (now the Tipperary Family History Research) exclusive rights to the registers.
The holders of microfilm copies - the National Library of Ireland and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints were ordered to withdraw the films from public access.
While the legal opinion was sought, no one was allowed to view the microfilms. The only way to get information was to pay.
The 23 other dioceses remained on unrestricted access.
In 2008, the National Library of Ireland removed access restrictions to its microfilm copies of Catholic parish registers. However, two bishops want to get the restrictions re-instated.
While the microfilms can be views at the National Library of Ireland in Dublin, as far as I can see, the information from the restricted areas isn't available on Family Search.
The only way to get the info, apart from a trip to Dublin, is to pay a minimum of 80 euros to Tipperary Family History Research.
To help people, I've copied the guide below from Irish Genealogy (Irish Government site).
WHAT CHURCH RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE?
From http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
1. Transcripts of baptism and marriage records of the RC Diocese of Kerry to c1900 - includes parishes in western and north-western areas of Co Cork.
2. Transcripts with images for all surviving 19th century CoI marriage, baptism and burial records in Co Kerry.
3. All RC baptism, marriage and burial registers for Dublin City, some parishes in transcript only (to c1900), some transcripts with images (to c1880). The records of St Paul's, Arran Quay, are not included. A transcript of its records can be found at http://dublinnorth.rootsireland.ie.
4. All surviving CoI marriage and burial registers for Dublin City, most of them transcripts with images to c1900.
5. All surviving CoI baptism, marriage and burial registers for Co Carlow, transcripts with images to c1900.
6. All RC baptism, marriage and burial registers (transcripts with images to c1880) for the diocese of Cork and Ross, which covers the south and west of the county and Cork City. Some of the records of Cork City (for the parishes of St Mary & St Anne, St Patrick's and Blackrock) aren't online.
7. A small number of Presbyterian records relating to a congregation in Lucan, Co Dublin (transcript only).
Work is progressing on the completion of the Co Monaghan Roman Catholic records (Diocese of Clogher).
Elsewhere:
1. www.rootsireland.ie: Pay site. Transcripts (without images) of most of the RC records on the island of Ireland for areas other than those listed above.
The major exceptions, where only small proportions of the records are transcribed, are counties Donegal, Monaghan and Wexford.
None of the transcribed records for Clare are online.
Each geographical area on the site has a 'sources list' and it is essential to consult this in order to ascertain precisely what records are being searched.
The site also includes transcripts of CoI, Methodist and Presbyterian registers, complete for some counties, completely absent for others.
2. www.familysearch.org: Free transcripts without images of approximately 30 Roman Catholic parishes, mostly in counties Kerry, Cork and Roscommon.
3. www.ancestry.co.uk. Subscription. Transcripts without images, of the registers of the diocese of Meath up to 1880, approximately 40 parishes, as well as a copy of the LDS transcripts.
4. Others: A significant number of local historical and family history societies have made transcripts of their church records available online. A guide to the Roman Catholic records is at: www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/
5. A large collection of Jewish records are online at the paying site www.irishjewishroots.com.
WHAT CHURCH RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE FOR RESEARCH OFFLINE?
1. The National Library of Ireland has microfilm copies of almost all pre-1880 RC parish registers on the island of Ireland. Access is free and print-outs of are allowed. See www.nli.ie
2. The LDS Family History Library has microfilm copies of about 40% of Irish RC parish registers, some copies of National Library of Ireland films, others filmed by the LDS themselves. See https://familysearch.org/catalog-search
3. Most local RC parishes don't allow research on their original records. Callers will normally be referred to the heritage centres whose records are now almost all on www.rootsireland.ie. If necessary, contact details for local parishes can be found via www.catholicireland.net
4. The Representative Church Body Library is the official archive of record for CoI records which survived the burning of the Public Record Office in 1922. A full list of its holdings is at http://ireland.anglican.org. All are freely searchable if they aren't too fragile to be handled.
5. The Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (www.proni.gov.uk) has freely available microfilm copies of almost all surviving records of all denominations for areas now in Northern Ireland, as well as a good number for areas in the border counties of Donegal, Cavan, Leitrim, Monaghan and Louth. A full list is at http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/online_indexes/church_of_ireland_index.htm.
6. Quaker records are very comprehensive back to the 17th century, with microfilm copies in NLI and PRONI. See www.quakers-in-ireland.ie
7. Some Presbyterian records are only available locally or in the Presbytrerian Historical Society. See www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com