Gunner Joseph Osgerby RGA - and Mabel

[Shona]

Some more questions arising from my First World War research.

JOSEPH OSGERBY
Gunner, 35362, Royal Garrison Artillery
Son of Thomas and Alice Osgerby
Born in Barton-upon-Humber
Enlisted in Hull

The town's war memorial has J Osgerby who died on 18 March 1918. St Peter's church memorial has Joseph Osgerby with the same date of death. The roll of honour at St Mary's church has two references to Joseph Osgerby. One of these is Gunner Osgerby; the other is his cousin who was in the Lincs Regiment and who died in Feb 1918.

However, there is no record of a Joseph Osgerby who died on 18 March 1918 in either Soldiers Died in the Great War or Commonwealth War Graves records.

I assume the reason for this is that Gunner Joseph Osgerby was a deserter - which is written on his medal record card.

The Joseph Osgerby was 21 when he enlisted on 6 June 1911. Fred Hopper, who ran the cycle factory where Joseph worked, provided a reference for saying Joseph was single, sober and honest. His teacher also gave a character reference stating that he had known Joseph nearly all his life and that he a ‘steady, sober, well-conducted young fellow’.

But the ‘steady, sober, well-conducted fellow’ was admitted to military hospital in Brighton barely a month after enlisting to be treated for gonorrhoea. Gunner Osgerby spent the next four weeks in hospital and the treatment was regarded as successful.

In March 1912, he was declared fit for foreign service.

Possibly there were hints of things to come when, in December 1912, he was confined to barracks for five days for having ‘stated a falsehood’ to an officer.

The up pops Mabel. In March 1913, a letter the army received a letter from Miss Mabel Atkinson, daughter of brickmaker Walter Atkinson of South Ferriby Sluice ‘near Hull’ asking ‘what’s the man’s address is, also if 1 shilling a week could be stopped from his pay to help support her baby.’

It isn’t known if she received any money following this request.

Mabel wrote again to tell the army that Joseph had also borrowed a £1 from her about six months before enlisting. However, in October 1913, his commanding officer declared that he was a very good character and that he was a steady, hard-working man who was thoroughly normal, sober and reliable.

He was awarded the Victory medal, British medal and 1914 star for his service with 113 Heavy Battery RGA. Qualifying date 3 October 1914.

He was injured in 1915 and sent back to England for treatment. In September that year, Gunner Osgerby deserted.

In January 1916, Mabel Atkinson was in touch with the military once more asking if man had been posted to a hospital establishment. The army replied to say that nothing further was known. In February, Mabel wrote again to ask if further inquiries could be made to find out his whereabouts.

On 1 March 1916, a court of inquiry at Fort Brockhurst in Gosport considered the case, concluding:

‘The court declare that No 35362 Gnr J Osgerby RGA illegally absented himself without leave from the nearest military hospital to Barton-on-Humber, Lincs, on or about 2nd September 1915 and that he is still absent.’

On 7 April 1919 the army state that he was a deserter with no trace of death.

Why, then, is there a date of death on the Barton memorials? Did his family fib to avoid the stigma of having a deserter in the family?

And what about Mabel and her child? What happened to them?

[Jackie H]

I think this is probably Mabel with her family (including father Walter) in South Ferriby in 1911

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_20107_0265_03/21903084?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911England%26h%3d21903084%26 indiv%3dtry%26o_vc%3dRecord%253aOtherRecord%26rhSo urce%3d7814&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

There is no young child so I presume the child was born between April 1911 and March 1913 when she wrote about it.

The registration district for South Ferriby is Glanford Brigg and there's only one child surname Atkinson MMN Atkinson in that period - Alice M O (I wonder whether the O is Osgerby) Q/E Dec 1911

[Shona]

Thank you, Jackie - that is Mabel in 1911.

The birth looks interesting - O could well stand for Osgerby and Joseph's mother was named Alice.

[Jackie H]

Have you found a death registration?

[kiterunner]

There are three Joseph Osgerby entries on the 1911 census born in Barton on Humber - one age 21, son of Thomas and Alice, one age 19, son of Robert and Margaret, and one age 12, son of Charles and Martha Amelia. Just thought I would mention this because they could all have served in WW1.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has a baptism for Mabel Anna Atkinson 24 Apr 1890 Horkstow, Lincoln, parents Walter and Sarah Emma. But I think her birth is registered as Mabel Hannah.

[kiterunner]

There are some public trees on ancestry which show Mabel marrying Frederick S Proctor 2 Jan 1915 at Barton on Humber, and dying in 1969 in Scunthorpe. They don't show her daughter Alice though.

[Jackie H]

Have you seen this? (scroll down for entries about the 2 Joseph Osgerby's on the war memorial)

http://bartononhumberatwar.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/1918-make-or-break-final-acts-part-1.html

Unless I'm getting confused it says that the elder - is this your one? - died in Catterick Camp from head and leg wounds on 18th March 1918. I think the death is registered in the Armed Forces Deaths.

If this is the right man, why did the service record say that there was no trace of his death in 1919?

[Shona]

There are some public trees on ancestry which show Mabel marrying Frederick S Proctor 2 Jan 1915 at Barton on Humber, and dying in 1969 in Scunthorpe. They don't show her daughter Alice though.

Mabel wrote to the Army in January and February 1915 asking for info on Joseph Osgerby's whereabouts.

[kiterunner]

FreeBMD has a death registration of a Joseph Osgerby Jul-Sep 1951 Scunthorpe district, age 59.

[Shona]

Have you seen this? (scroll down for entries about the 2 Joseph Osgerby's on the war memorial)

http://bartononhumberatwar.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/1918-make-or-break-final-acts-part-1.html

Unless I'm getting confused it says that the elder - is this your one? - died in Catterick Camp from head and leg wounds on 18th March 1918. I think the death is registered in the Armed Forces Deaths.

If this is the right man, why did the service record say that there was no trace of his death in 1919?

I'd not seen that blogspot before. But I recognise some of the work - it's mine!

However, I have Lance Corp Joseph Osgerby of the Lincolnshire Regiment, who was killed in action on 19 Feb 1918, as the son of Robert and Margaret Osgerby. The qualifying date for his medals was 27 Feb 1915.

Joseph, son of Chales and Martha, was 12 in 1911. I reckoned this one was too young to have entered a theatre of war in Feb 1915.

I've been reading through Gunner Osgerby's records again and there is no mention of a death. His desertion is mentioned. It also states his medals were forfeited due to the desertion. The medal card says he deserted, too.

[Shona]

FreeBMD has a death registration of a Joseph Osgerby Jul-Sep 1951 Scunthorpe district, age 59.

Could this be the one who was born July/Aug/Sept 1898? Son of Charles and Martha, who was 12 in 1911?

[kiterunner]

Could this be the one who was born July/Aug/Sept 1898? Son of Charles and Martha, who was 12 in 1911?

Well, it could if his age at death is way out!

[Shona]

It's probably yet another Joseph Osgerby!

[Jackie H]

Is it worth contacting the person who wrote the blog to see where they got the information about the death from wounds?

[Shona]

I will, Jackie.

[kiterunner]

In January 1916, Mabel Atkinson was in touch with the military once more asking if man had been posted to a hospital establishment. The army replied to say that nothing further was known. In February, Mabel wrote again to ask if further inquiries could be made to find out his whereabouts.



Is that taken from the "Inside Sheet" army form, Shona?
army form Inside Sheet on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1219/30973_182970-00102/1509131?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dBritishArmyService%26db%3d%26 so%3d2%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3djos*%26gsln%3dosgerby%2 6sx%3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1 %252c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3 d%26ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%2 6srchb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gs s%3dangs-b&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=30973_18297 0-00124)

The first entry is about correspondence with Miss M Atkinson, date 13 Mar 1913 (I think). Then the entry about how she had lent him money. Then the 1916 entries are from O I/c R A Sec(tion) 3rd Echelon and OC 2 Depot, not from Mabel.

[Shona]

There are some public trees on ancestry which show Mabel marrying Frederick S Proctor 2 Jan 1915 at Barton on Humber, and dying in 1969 in Scunthorpe. They don't show her daughter Alice though.

Frederick S Proctor married an Atkinson Oct/Nov/Dec 1914. Can't find a corresponding entry for Mabel, though.

An Alice Proctor married Clarence Hall July/Aug/Sept 1932, Glandford Brigg.

[kiterunner]

Yes, it's Frederick S Proctor / Mabel H Atkinson, on FreeBMD and on North Lincs BMD (it is 1914 on there too).

[kiterunner]

An Alice Proctor married Clarence Hall July/Aug/Sept 1932, Glandford Brigg.

There are quite a few Alice Proctors around so it may or may not be Alice Atkinson. Also there is an Alice M Atkinson marrying an Ernest Sharp at Glanford Brigg in that same quarter.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Shona, the person who runs that blog is the same one who found the pictures of my gg uncles. I am sure he would help if he can.

[Shona]

I'll send you a PM, Lynn.

[Horselldad1968]

Joseph Osgerby was my great Uncle and after going AWOL he went on to re-enlist using his mother's maiden name as Gunner 111448 George Green in the Royal Field Artillery. He died of wounds in Hipswell Camp Catterick on the 18th March 1918 and is buried in Hipswell St John's Churchyard.

I have only recently started researching our family history and may post more information when I have it.

[Shona]

Hello Horselldad and welcome to GF.

And a huge thank you for bringing together the loose ends relating to Joseph Osgerby and solving the mystery - very impressive. How on earth did you work it out?

For completeness, here is Joseph Osgerby/George Green's entry on the CWGC website.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/408922/GREEN,%20G

He appears to have re-enlisted in Hull.

Look forward to reading more about Joseph/George

[Horselldad1968]

The story in the family was that he had re-enlisted under the maiden name of his mother Alice and that he had died of head and leg wounds in Catterick.

I first contacted Sean at the bartononhumberatwar blogspot when I had found reference to the question of why there were two Joseph Osgerbys mentioned on the war memorial in Barton Upon Humber but only one known grave. Between us we found that he had indeed re-enlisted in the Royal Field Artillery as Green (lying about his age)and had died in Catterick while attempting to recover from his wounds. Searching the records with both of his parents names solved the mystery. We still don't really know why Joseph went AWOL initially but I suspect that he was suffering from what we would now recognise as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. We certainly hadn't heard about the alleged child with Mabel and matters are not helped by the fact that there were several Joseph Osgerbys around in the area at the time. I suspect that we will never know.

Joseph's brother Gunner Tom Osgerby (listed on the Barton Memorial) was killed in action in October 1917 and they had also lost his father Thomas in the same year. Alice insisted that both her sons should be listed on the memorial and made a very vocal protest when it was first unveiled and she saw that Joseph's name was missing. The other Joseph Osgerby listed on the memorial was a cousin and he was killed in action a month before Joseph/George succumbed to his wounds.

I will keep you posted.

[Shona]

Fascinating information - thank you.

This is what I have on the other two Osgerby names on the memorial.


THOMAS OSGERBY
Gunner 755343, D Battery, 190th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery
Died: 5 October 1917, aged 27 years
Born in Barton-upon-Humber
Son of Thomas and Alice Osgerby, Barton-upon-Humber
Husband of Ethel Osgerby, 32 Bright Street, Holderness Road, Hull
Buried: The Huts Cemetery, Ypres, Belgium

The cemetery takes its name from a line of huts that were strung out along the road from Dikkebus to Brandhoek which were used by field ambulances in 1917. Plots I to X and XII to XIV were filled between July and November 1917 and nearly two-thirds of the burials are of gunners as there were many artillery positions nearby. There are now 1,094 Commonwealth burials of the First World War in the cemetery.

Commemorated:
Barton War Memorial – T. Osgerby
St Mary’s roll of honour – Thomas Osgerby
St Peter’s Church – Thomas Osgerby

Background
In 1911, Thomas Osgerby lived at 75 Far Ings Lane with his wife of less than a year, Lydia Ethel, and their nine-month-old son, Ernest James Thomas Osgerby, who was born in Hull – as was his mother. Also in the household was Robert Richards, a 53-year-old road sweeper for the council, originally from Uttoxeter. Thomas worked as cycle polisher. Thomas’s parents, Thomas and Alice, and 11 of his siblings lived close by at 1 St Chad’s, Waterside Road. Thomas, 50, was a malster and came from South Ferriby. His wife, a Bartonian, was three years younger than her husband. The couple had been married for 27 years and had 14 children. Living with them at the time of the census were Lizzie, 28 (born illegitimate), William, 26, maltster’s labourer, Joseph, 21, cycle polisher, Lucy, 17, a packer in the cycle works, Frank, 16, a polisher like Joseph, Elise ‘Ely’, 15, a cycle packer, Helena, 12, Fred, nine, Edith, eight, Jack, seven, and Phyllis, four. Two other sisters Cecelia and Alice had left home. Four of Thomas and Alice’s sons served – William, Joseph, Thomas and Frank.


JOSEPH OSGERBY
Lance Corporal 240230, 2/5th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment
Killed in action: 19 February 1918
Born in Barton-upon-Humber
Son of Robert and Margaret Osgerby
Enlisted in Barton-upon-Humber
Buried: Mory Abbey Military Cemetery, Mory, France

The Commonwealth plots were opened at the end of March 1917 and used by until March 1918, and again in August and September 1918. The cemetery was enlarged after the Armistice when remains were brought in from the battlefields between St. Leger and Bapaume. The cemetery contains 619 Commonwealth burials of the First World War.

Commemorated:
Barton War Memorial – J. Osgerby
St Mary’s roll of honour – Joseph Osgerby
St Peter’s Church – Joseph Osgerby

Medals: Victory, British, 1915 Star

Background
Joseph Osgerby was the son of South Ferriby-born brickyard labourer, Robert Osgerby, and his wife Margaret. Joseph’s father, Robert, and his brother, Thomas, lived close to each other in Barton-upon-Humber. In 1901, Robert and Margaret and six of their children lived at St Chad’s Lane in Barton. Robert was 34, as was his wife. All of the six children were born in Barton – Maud (who was illegitimate) 13, Joseph, nine, Hannah, seven, Margaret, six, Robert, four, Mary, three, and Arthur, 11 months. In 1908, Maud married Charles Altoft – a cycle frame tracker. In 1911, Robert and Margaret lived on Waterside Road with six of their nine children – Joseph, 19, a mate on a river sloop, Hannah, 17, and Margaret, 16, both wrappers at the cycle works, Arthur (10), Jack (seven) and Jessie (six) were at school. Once more Robert’s brother, Thomas lived nearby.

Maud and Charles lived at 24 Far Ings Lane. In addition to her own two sons – Allan Altoft (one) and Charles Robert Altoft (eight months), Maud was looking after two of her brothers – Robert (14), and errand boy) and 12-year-old Harry.

Three of Robert and Margaret’s sons served in the war – Joseph, Robert and Harry.

Joseph’s cousin, Thomas Osgerby died in the war in October 1917. Maud’s brother-in-law, John Altoft died in April 1917.

Joseph lost his life on 19 February 1918.

Joseph’s cousin (Thomas’s brother) and namesake, Joseph, is on the Barton memorial as having died in March 1918.

[Horselldad1968]

That's wonderful. Many thanks.