Daughter or niece?

[Kit]

On the 1901 census Mary Ann Newick is the daughter of George and Margaret.

On the 1911 census she is their niece.

I'm confused. I don't want to get the cert at the moment. is there any other way to find out which on she is?

I've checked the census though and it was not completed by either George or Margaret but by someone I don't know. It does have an X as George's mark.

On the 1881 census George and Margaret had a son John born abt 1880.

The 1911 census says that George and Margaret had only one child.

1881 census RG11/5332 folio 39 page 69

1901 RG13/2398 Folio 40 Page 8

[Merry]

She is recorded as daughter in 1891 as well as 1901.

[Merry]

In 1911 does it say they had one child who is living or one child who isn't living?

[Merry]

Is this their son?

Births Jun 1880
NEWICK John James Bridgend 11a 547


Deaths Dec 1883
Newick John James 4 Bridgend 11a 360

[Merry]

I see her birth reg is in the name Newick but George was from Somerset so unless more of his family moved to Wales it would seem likely she is theirs.

[Merry]

If the 1911 form said they had one living child then I guess that was mary Ann. Did they give a higher number or dec'd children?

There are these registrations in Bridgend as well as John James and Mary Ann:

Births Dec 1877
Newick Elizabeth Bridgend 11a 555

Deaths Mar 1879
Newick Elizabeth 1 Bridgend 11a 367


Births Jun 1882
Newick Frederick Bridgend 11a 599

Deaths Sep 1883
NEWICK Fredrick 1 Bridgend 11a 282

There are no other Newick entries other than these and George's marriage to Margaret Price in 1877 in Bridgend District.

[Margaret in Burton]

It's not the same Mary Ann in 1911. This one is only 9 years old.

In answer to your question Merry, it says one child born and still living.

Kit, if you want the 1911 image pm me your email addy.

[Merry]

Bother, I didn't think to check the 1911 details!

So this is the one on the 1911?

Births Mar 1902
Newick Mary Ann Pontypridd 11a 520

There's a Samuel Newick and wife and large family in Llanwonno (Pontyprid) in 1901. Mrs N is 27 years of age. Samuel is from Somerset and b abt 1862/63.

In 1871 George and Samuel are brothers here:

RG10; Piece: 2378; Folio: 8; Page: 7

so that's the relationship of Mary Ann sorted!!

[Kit]

Hello, sorry I've been away, asleep etc.

Wow Merry, you've done well. I haven't gotten around to looking at Samuel yet.

The son John you found was listed as their child on the 1881 census. I'm guessing the person who completed it didn't know of this child and as they can't read didn't know he wasn't mentioned.

So George and Margaret's Mary Ann is alive somewhere and they have Samuel's niece with them. (Note to self find Samuel on the 1911). I didn't even think about the age of the girl on the census vs the age of their child. SHouldn't post late at night.

Margaret thanks for the offer I bought a sub last week, hence all my 1911 related questions. lol

Thanks both of you for your help.

[Kit]

Arrrggh.

Just checked the census for Samuel and he has 8 children, which is good I only had 7. Checked the children on the census for middle names etc and the last one is Walter aged 4. Not so good I don't know about Walter, so Mary Ann doesn't fit. I'll have to keep going and see if George and Samuel have more brothers who are missing a child.

[Merry]

Do you mean Mary Ann doesn't fit because Samuel has enough children without her? (according to the 1911)

I don't know what you mean about middle names?

[Merry]

This is another brother:

Marriages Sep 1890
MORRIS Emma Dyer Pontypridd 11a 742
Newick Thomas Pontypridd 11a 742 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Rogers John Pontypridd 11a 742
Solway Adelaide Elizabeth E Pontypridd 11a 742 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I missed them when I looked at the 1901. Maybe Mary Ann is theirs?

[Kit]

Merry some of the children have middle names and some don't. I was checking to see if the census provided middle names for those who didn't.

And yes, Mary Ann doesn't fit as Samuel has enough children without her.

Thomas married Adelaide. From the children he already has I'd say Mary isn't his but it could be possible, just.

There were 11 brothers in George, Samuel and Thomas's family. I'll have to check them all out. There are a couple I haven't found marriages for so far. I'll put them up when I've done the whole family.

[Merry]

I don't think any of the others were in Wales.

What do you mean by 'just' about Adelaide?

[Kit]

Merry Thomas & Adelaide have a child born Jan 1901 and one registered 4th Q 1902. It's possible to put Mary Ann in the middle but it is unlikely.

[Merry]

Sounds as if it would be easier to just get the birth cert!!

Could she be the illegitimate child of one of the brothers daughters, or are none of them old enough? I realise that wouldn't make her niece, but great-niece......

[Kit]

Merry bite your tongue!

I don't want to buy the cert as it's not my direct line and I have limited resources. Hopefully I can work it out, if not she will go on my wish list.

[Margaret in Burton]

In my experience it wouldn't be unknown for a great niece to be listed as niece. They used these terms very loosely.

[Kit]

Margaret, you aren't helping.

[Margaret in Burton]

Margaret, you aren't helping.

sorry :D:D

[kiterunner]

I've also come across grand-daughters listed as "niece"

*runs away quickly*

[Kit]

* chases kate off thread *

I was going to say Kate can say what she wants as it's not possible for George to have a Newick grandchild, until I remembered Mary Ann may have had an illegitimate child. :o:rolleyes: