Gilkes confusion

[ElizabethHerts]

I am trying to research my Gilkes ancestors myself. They were Quakers and the information I hold on them was acquired from other people.

My 6x-great-grandparents were John Jefcoat and Hannah Gilkes, who married in 1697 at South Newington.
Details of the marriage are given here, and I need to go to the Society of Friends library at London to verify this information.
http://gwwgen.com/mytree/aqwg15.htm#35123

It is fairly certain that Hannah's father was Thomas Gilkes from Sibford Gower.

This link gives details about Thomas Gilkes:
http://gwwgen.com/mytree/aqwg19.htm#35739

However, all the trees I've seen say that Thomas was born in 1645 and died in 1699. However, his first child was reputedly born in 1658 - he would have only been 13! His wife is widely given as Mary.

Also:
"Assessed as a Freeholder at Lay Subsidy of 1662. Joined the Society of Friends. One of the Founders of the Sibford Gower Meeting House 1678-1681, along with Bray d'Oyly of Adderbury, Thomas Fardon of North Newington & others."

In 1662 he would have been c. 17 - a little young, I would have thought.


Furthermore, I have just downloaded the will of Thomas Gilkes 1699 from Sibford Gower from the Origins website.

Here his wife is Elizabeth, his son Thomas (of famous clock-making fame) and his daughters Mary and Elizabeth, with no mention of Hannah at all.

Somehow none of this seems to tie up properly.

[Mary from Italy]

TNA has a litigation file for a Thomas Gilks of Sibford Gower dating back to 1655, so the 1645 birthdate seems unlikely.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C3929821

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks for that, Mary.
I've just downloaded a will for a Thomas Gilkes for 1672, so I'll have to be careful to check to which Thomas Gilkes the documents relate.

Isn't it amazing how people just copy one another without questioning the sense? The information of the 1745 birth appears in articles and websites that you would think would check the information first.

I will dismiss the supposed parents of this THomas as well, until I can establish his age.

[Mary from Italy]

Can you get to view the Sibford Gower baptism register?

[ElizabethHerts]

Mary, I need to go to the RO at Oxford - it's probably an hour and a bit from here.

I have also been meaning to go to the Society of Friends in Euston Road.
It only takes 30 minutes to St Pancras from here, so I really have no excuses.
However, by the time I have fitted in Italian lessons, Pilates, a day down in Kent with our grandson, etc. the week seems to fly by!

I must make a list of everything I need.

The Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies has a lot of Quaker records there, so

[kiterunner]

It looks as though it would be worth going through the list of witnesses at John Jeffcoat and Hannah Gilkes' marriage to see how they fit together. They include a Thomas Gilkes senior and junior, two John Gilkes, Richard Gilkes, two Mary Gilkes, Eliz Gilkes, and then some of the others may turn out to be Gilkes women using their married names, or men who married a Gilkes? Though of course some of them may not be very closely related to Hannah - I see that there are several Gilkeses in the list of witnesses at John Jeffcoat's previous marriage.

The page you linked to with info about Thomas Gilkes says he was christened in 1645 but not when he was born, so I suppose it's possible he wasn't a baby when he was christened? Unlikely in those days though.

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Kate. I think the first stop will have to be the Society of Friends.
I need to collect some documentary evidence and they should know a lot about the Gilkes family.

It did occur to me that bapisms are sometimes quite a lot later than the birth.

[kiterunner]

Also since Hannah got married before Thomas's death, it's possible that he had given her her inheritance when she got married and that's why she isn't mentioned in his will. Were Mary and Elizabeth unmarried when Thomas died?

[ElizabethHerts]

Mary is given as Mary Gilks. Elizabeth's surname isn't given, but no husband is named.

I hope it's the right family as the wife is Elizabeth. I'll have to check all the marriages when I look at the records.

[ElizabethHerts]

I have now unearthed the article sent to my Mum, which I now possess.

"Gilkes of Sibford: An Enterprising Yeoman Family" by M(ichael) L(ewes) Dix-Hamilton.

It is written in great detail, with references and sources, and confirms the information I have given. It isn't always easy to follow as it jumps about rather.

He says "... Thomas, of Sibford Gower, who was baptised on 30th November 1645, and assessed as a freeholder in 1662."

I shall just have to go through the information methodically.

[Merry]

Thanks, Kate. I think the first stop will have to be the Society of Friends.




Check before you go, but when I was attempting a visit they wanted references from a person of standing before allowing you in! That was a long time ago though.

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks for the information, Merry. I shall phone them first, I think.

How are you going with Mr Hutton/Hamilton and his mother?
Are you managing to collate the information satisfacoriy?

[Merry]

65 sheets of prison records for Margaret and half a dozen for him were downloaded by me this morning. Tomorrow we are ordering two death certs (Margaret's parents), two marriage certs (Margaret's siblings) and Margaret's birth cert plus a couple for siblings who look like they were registered.

Mum has gone into a nearby rest home and seems to be settling in well (*crosses fingers*), so I may be able to sort my life out a bit - however, there's a massive pile of jobs and paperwork waiting for me when the children go back to school tomorrow!!

[ElizabethHerts]

You can't complain about lack of information now!:d

I think you are like me - I have information overload. I have found so many Oxfordshire wills of ancestors that my head is swimming. I have transcribed a fair few, and I have a pile of papers on my desk. It all needs tidying up.

I hope your Mum settles in well, Merry, and that you have a little more spare time. I know the feeling of 101 tasks pending.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Liza were the Quakers like the Baptists and only believed in adult baptism? Julie

[kiterunner]

The Quakers didn't baptise babies / children, but there wouldn't be Quakers yet by the time of Thomas Gilkes's baptism in 1645, if that's what you're thinking, Julie.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I'm right and wrong as usual lol .. Julie (!!)

[ElizabethHerts]

The confusion continues!

I e-mailed the Society of Friends to establish whether it was worth my while visiting the library. In some cases it is better to visit the local ROs.

Re. Thomas Gilkes and daughter Hannah, I'm still no further forward really.

I received this:
"Hannah Jeffcoat (born Gilkes) John Jeffcoat (d. 1702) both have entries in the Dictionary of Quaker Biography along with Hannah’s father Thomas Gilkes (d. 1703) and mother Hannah Gilkes (born Alcocke).

John and Hannah Jeffcoat’s marriage did indeed take place in South Newton on 21.xii (February).1697 . Both South Newington and Sibford Gower were part of Banbury Monthly Meeting, now Banbury and Evesham Area Quaker Meeting. I attach an administrative history and list of records along with a list of records for Sibford Meeting."

If Thomas Gilk(e)s died in 1703, I've been looking at the wrong Thomas (there are lots of them!)
In anticipation, I downloaded the will of Thomas Gilkes Yeoman 1703 of Sibford Gower from Origins. It's quite long and I have only transcribed a little of it, and although he mentions the surname Allcock there is no mention of any children, just his mother Elizabeth and sister Mary so far. Also a "cinsman" William Gilks.

The spelling is something to behold! You have to say the words out loud or to yourself, as otherwise it's difficult to make them out.

I don't believe that they have attributed the correct parents to Hannah. There is a baptism in 1664 with the parents Thomas and Mary Gilkes.
I know for a fact that her father was Thomas from her marriage documents.

I think I might have to look at all the records and transcribe all the wills to get to the bottom of this!

[ElizabethHerts]

A little example of the spelling:

"... to find marsy at his grasus hand in and through oure Lard and Savear Jesus Christ... "

"....to my sister Mary Gilks and ye ares of hur body lawfully begoaten..."

:D

[Lindsay]

A little example of the spelling:

"... to find marsy at his grasus hand in and through oure Lard and Savear Jesus Christ... "

"....to my sister Mary Gilks and ye ares of hur body lawfully begoaten..."

:D

It gives a good impression of how they must have spoken, doesn't it?