Did Elizabeth Eggett exist?

[tenterfieldjulie]

I purchased an embroidery sampler today which was found in England.
It is a child's sampler with the alphabet, her numbers and a biblical verse.
It is signed by Elizabeth Eggett Aged 8 Years 1866 Flixton.
I have found Flixton as a part of Manchester, but have not found Elizabeth on Lancs OPC, FreeBMD or Family Search and I am wondering is she is a real person or whether it has been made up.
The frame is a plain oak frame, the fabric itself is quite coarse and is a bit grotty. The verse says - I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. Prov viii
I am delighted with it, and would love to find her if she existed. Thanks. Julie

[tenterfieldjulie]

Found on FreeCen - in the 1861 Census at Norfolk - two Eggett families whose breadwinners were Journeymen -
1. Thomas & (journeyman bricklayer) Mary, Alfred 5 and Elizabeth 4 born North Elmham;
2. John & (journeyman blacksmith) & Charlotte, Imanuel 8, Henry 5 and Elizabeth 3 born Bawdeswell.
In 1871 there are Eggett families in Norfolk, but not these and they aren't coming up elsewhere. Can they be found in Manchester? Thanks. Julie

[Shona]

There is a baptism for an Elizabeth Eggett in Rochdale, AMJ 1880.

[Shona]

There are at least three other Flixtons:
1 A village near Scarborough, N Yorkshire
2 A village near Lowestoft, Suffolk
3 And another one in Suffolk, close to Bungay.

[Shona]

Julie, it's the second family you identified. In 1871, The Elizabeth in that family has a three-year-old sister named Emma, who was born in Flixton, Suffolk. Which fits in with the 1866 date on the sampler.

1871 Chapel Road, Kirby Cane, Norfolk

John Eggett, 45, journeyman blacksmith, , b Elsing, Norfolk
Charlotte Eggett, wife, 40, b Whitewell, Norfolk
Manuel Eggett, son, 18, butcher's labourer, b Lyng, Norfolk
Henry Eggett, son, 15, ag lab, b Lyng, Norfolk
Elizabeth Eggett, dau, 13, scholar, b Bawdeswell, Norfolk
Emma Eggett, dau, 3, b Flixton, Suffolk
Emily Eggett, dau, 2, b Kirby Cane, Norfolk

[Shona]

Btw - journeyman refers to men who've completed apprenticeships, but who work for someone else.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Shona. Many thanks that is wonderful information. It appears that she really did exist and that they moved around. The Census are a wonderful resource.
Thanks for that info on journeyman, I just thought it meant that they travelled around following work, I didn't know the reference to having completed apprenticeships, but that makes sense.
A ten gap in ages between Elizabeth and Emma and then to have an Emily .. obviously liked having daughters with initials EE. Thanks again... Julie

[Shona]

Flixton today has a population of 48!

[tenterfieldjulie]

Only room for one blacksmith, maybe why he moved back to Norfolk .. but having two Flixtons in Suffolk is a pain. If I can read my own writing .. Flixton near Bungay (Homersfield) and Flixton near Oulton Broad, near Lowestoft.
I wonder if Emma was baptised in Flixton, as it might identify which church? The one near Lowestoft is St. Andrew. They are less than 20 miles apart!!

[kiterunner]

The word journeyman is derived from the French journee, a day, meaning he was paid by the day.

[tenterfieldjulie]

A very tenuous existence, although being a blacksmith he would still have been in demand in the 1860/70s. Being a rural area, we've only in the last ten years lost our last blacksmith. Nowdays if you can't fix it yourself, you throw it out sadly. No wonder there is so much trouble with rubbish disposal.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Ooh I am getting muddled. Where is the best place to look for Suffolk records please? I think I'm a little tired, but Genuki is doing my head in. Julie

[kiterunner]

There aren't very many Suffolk records online, unfortunately. FamilySearch is the best place but not very complete.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Kate. I didn't know if it was me. Would the records be on Ancestry? I can look at the library tomorrow. I haven't bought a programme yet, as with family health issues I wouldn't be using it at home regularly for a while. When you buy a sub, is it tied to a particular address or a computer?

[kiterunner]

There aren't many Suffolk records on ancestry, no.

Also an ancestry sub is not tied to a particular address or computer, but if you log on from a few different computers (or a few different browsers or IP addresses on the same computer) within a short time, it will lock your account for half an hour saying you have "exceeded your license limit". Sometimes it does this even when you haven't, but this hasn't happened to me recently. *crosses fingers*

[kiterunner]

Oh, and you can buy pay-as-you-go credits on ancestry if you don't want a full sub.

[Shona]

From Family Search:

Emma Eggett baptised 27 October 1867, Flixton by Bungay, parents John and Charlotte.

The population fig I quoted earlier was the other Flixton.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Wow you are on a roll Shona .. I now know which Flixton it is, where Elizabeth was born, what her father did, who her siblings are .. oh how amazing. I will type all this up and put it in another frame with the sampler ..
I wonder if it was treasured by her family, or left behind when the family went back to Norfolk. Someone treasured it then by the way it is framed and it is treasured again now, nearly 150 years later, but on the other side of the world. Thanks Shona. Julie

[Shona]

Children of John Eggett and Charlotte Eglinton

Manuel, bp 3 April 1853, Ling
Albert, bp 14 Jan 1855, Ling
Henry, bp 23 March 1856, Ling
Elizabeth Rebecca Eggett, bp 21 Feb 1858, Bawdeswell
Emma, bp 27 Oct 1867, Flixton by Bungay,
Emily, bp 6 June 1869, Kirby-Cane

1881 - Ellingham
John, 55, blacksmith, b Elsham
Charlotte, 50, b Whitwell
Henry, 24, b Lyng
Emily, 13, b Flixton
Emela, 12, b Kirby-Cane

Plus a lodger and boarder - the boarder is a 1 month old boy named Edgar Norman, born in Bungay.

1891 Kirby-Cane
John, 65, blacksmith, b Elmham
Charlotte, 60, b Whitwell
Edgard Norman, boarder, 10, born Bungay

It looks as if Elizabeth Eggett married David Fountain.

1881 - Rushmere, Suffolk

David Fountain, 27, shepherd, b North Cane
Elizabeth Fountain, 23, b Bawdeswell
John Fountain, 5, b Barnby
Charlotte Fountain, 3, b Mulford
David Fountain, 2, b Mulford

[Shona]

Elizabeth died in 1937 aged 79.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Oh she married a shepherd, I wonder if she taught her little girl to sew? She lived to be a good age too. Oh the Eggetts had another daughter starting with E. How great.
I have a feeling we visited Norfolk back in the 1970s, but I think a return visit is due.
Where I bought the sampler are going to be amazed .. Very chuffed .. Julie

[Shona]

Julie, it's been a pleasure.

Elizabeth's father, John Eggett, appears in a couple of Kelly's directories:

1879
Ellingham, John Eggett, Blacksmith

1883
Kirby Cane, Bungay, John Eggett, Blacksmith

[tenterfieldjulie]

"Beccles & Bungay Weekly News 19 June 1866 Page 4, column 4 From microfilm supplied by the British Library Newspaper Library
DEATHS - On the 15th June, at the Union House, Shipmeadow, Mr Stephen ROE, late of Beccles, blacksmith, aged 70 years."
I wonder if the blacksmith's death/illness was why John & family moved there.

Strangely we have had a family here since the early days and the original ancestor was John Eggert .. makes you wonder if it is a corruption of Eggett. I'll have to do a little sleuthing lol (As long as that family don't want the sampler lol ... I've been wanting a child's sampler for years .. the closest I have come up to now, is a photo of one my great grandfather's sister Lucy Smith did. Lucy's even had her governesses name on it.) Thanks again. Julie

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Kate for the info on Ancestry. When!! I get all my jobs caught up (hopefully in the next few weeks) I think I'll get a fmp sub and buy credits with Ancestry. Then when I go away I will have something to do with my free time!!
Too much guilt here at the moment!! Julie

[Shona]

The things you find when you Google!

A site dedicated to Norfolk blacksmiths.

http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com/norfolk-1.php

[tenterfieldjulie]

Found marriage 18/10/1851 John (Fr John) Eggett to Charlotte Eglington at Whitwell, Norfolk. Found John's burial aged 75 at Kirby Cane Norfolk 19/11/1900. Found John as a 15 yr old on 1841 Census at Bawdeswell.
Ooh Shona with all this information .. I need to write a book not a page for the embroidery sampler .. how amazing. Often blacksmith's sons carried on for a number of generations. Oh off to hunt down John Sen.

[Shona]

You'll have to post a picture of the sampler for us to see.

Now, I wonder what my mum has done with my great-gran's sampler!

[Shona]

Found marriage 18/10/1851 John (Fr John) Eggett to Charlotte Eglington at Whitwell, Norfolk. Found John's burial aged 75 at Kirby Cane Norfolk 19/11/1900. Found John as a 15 yr old on 1841 Census at Bawdeswell. Often blacksmith's sons carried on for a number of generations. Oh off to hunt down John Sen.

Here's the info from the census record you found:

John Eggett, 45, blacksmith
Winifred Eggett, 45
Maria Eggett, 20, FS
John Eggett, 15, Ag Lab
George Eggett, 13, blacksmith's ?

All born in county.

John, 70, and Winifred, 69, are in Lyng in 1861. He is a master blacksmith. John jun and Charlotte has three children baptised in Lyng in 1853, 1855 and 1856. I wonder if son worked for father.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Found John Eggett sen's marriage in Elsing 21/8/1817 - poor lady had her name spelt every which way, but it also was an E name .. Winnefred Elsegood, Winifred Elsggood, Winifold Elsagood, Elsegoods, Elinford, - think probably Winifred E. Elsegood

[tenterfieldjulie]

Strange - I found the baptisms of John Fountain in 1877, Charlotte in 1878 and David in 1879 listed at Suffolk (full date but no church) and Father's name is Royal David Fountain. I have not been able to find the marriage of David or Royal David !! strange name for a shepherd ... a bit biblical King David was a shepherd!! Maybe David Fountain's mother was a miss Royal? Julie

[Shona]

You're right. On FS the father's name is Royal David Fountain.

Checking for marriages, a Royal David Fountain married in Oct-Nov-Dec 1872. The names which come up are Emma Girling, Eliza Woods or Ellen Rouse. Elizabeth Eggett married in Oct-Nov-Dec 1875, Mutford, Suffolk, but there I can't find a corresponding man!

Odd.

Ah - wait. The reference for the marriage of Royal David Fountain is 4a 1621 - the same reference for Elizabeth's marriage.

[HarrysMum]

Julie....I'm so jealous you have an old sampler.

I keep looking at all the online sales hoping to find one with one of Lawrie's family names. I don't think mine would be able to spell their names let alone sew them.....lol

[tenterfieldjulie]

I will photograph the sampler and post it here asap.
Apart from my interest in needlecraft and family history, I believe that samplers played a real role in education of young girls. By the time you perfected sewing a letter/number, you would not forget how it was formed. Women were expected to be able to sew, but in many cases not encouraged to be educated. By sewing samplers you opened a new world to them. I know of two cases in my family that the women supposedly taught their husbands how to write on the boat to Aus. The women were literate but not the men. Obviously as working class, the boys were expected to work at menial jobs .. being able to read and write gave them an independence that lots of the moneyed classes didn't want.
I visited Montacute House in Somerset in 2009 and 2010. It has an amazing collection of samplers from the Goodhart collection, that were collected when they weren't valued. They have so many of them, that they have enough to rotate them over a 3 year period. These are exquisite samplers on beautiful linen, I dream of finding one in an op shop lol In 2010 Montacute had changed their photography restrictions and as long as you didn't use a flash you could photograph them. I did have some problems with reflection off glass, but still got a few lovely photos including one "Wrought by Mary Postle in 1747". Julie

[Shona]

True, Julie. I love samplers. My mum has one stitched by my great-gran, Robina Moyes.

Samplers with alphabet and numbers were as much about teaching arithmetic, reading and writing as needlework.

There seem to be a lot more samplers dating from the middle of the 19th century and I wonder if this is connected with the provision of universal primary education?

Not the same, but I have a copy of my great-aunt Dorothy's school certificate from 1907.

She scored Very Good in her compulsory work - English, Arithmetic and Handwriting.

Dorothy was also given Very Good for:
- Law of health
- The Empire and Colonies: Their History and Geography
- Nature study, drill and singing

Her special subjects were:
- Geometry and measuring
- Keeping Accounts
- Gardening
- Dressmaking, mending and darning

Now I know that she and her sisters stitched samplers. My grannie let me see them when I was a lass. The girls also did exquisite lacework, which they were taught by their mother, Charlotte Nash, who was born in Tiverton.

All of the samplers and lacework are stuffed in my great-gran's travelling trunk, along with photos, letters, World War 1 medals and much more.

Unfortunately, my grumpy uncle who now lives alone in the croft won't let us look in the trunk. :(:(:(

So thank you for letting me help you in your quest to find out more about Elizabeth.

[HarrysMum]

I wish I still had my sampler. I remember Sr Michael every afternoon making us wash our hands and get the sampler out. I loved those lessons. Ahhhh....the memories of being 6 years old.....lol

[tenterfieldjulie]

I think I have a very rudimentary sampler on bright green cloth .. can remember my teacher's disgust with the large size of my stitches and then when I stayed up sewing very tiny stitches on my lawn bloomers they were too small.. something my grandmother passed on to the teacher while playing bridge .. unfortunately the teacher was the headmaster's wife and was not amused!!
I have one sampler I made as an adult of drawn thread stitches and one of blackwork stitches .. I always planned to make a proper one .. when I had the time!!

[tenterfieldjulie]

I am very happy with finding census records and marriages and burials for most of the Eggett and Fountains. I found a baptism of Bessie Fountain in 1885 and burial of Charlotte Fountain aged 11 in 1889. Elizabeth Fountain/Eggett had her share of sorrow too.
I am wondering if the full Census records for 1841 and 1851 can be found for Mark and Elizabeth Eglington in Whitwell, Norfolk. I have found their marriage in 1852 at Norwick and also Charlotte's baptism 1830. It would be nice to be able to complete their story.
I saw a Census record on Ancestry for 1911 of David Fountain (Market Gardener) and Elizabeth and I think there was someone else. The printer ran out of ink and then the library closed and I am wondering if someone could tell me who the third person was please. Thanks Julie

[Jill]

Frederick Fountain aged 7 born at Frostenden, near Wangford, Suffolk

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Jill. I wonder if he was their son or grandson? If he is their son, he is a long time after the others. I will have a look and see if his baptism is recorded. Julie

[Jill]

He's a grandson, Julie, sorry, should have put that on before!