Elizabeth (Underhay?)

[Sue from Southend]

I know nothing about Elizabeth apart from where she died which was Yeovil, Somerset.
This information came from her son's widow's Poor Law record which I found on Origins.net
"11 Jan 1810 Deborah, w(idow) William Tomlinson of 23 Grays Inn Lane, shoemaker and Rebecca Underhayes re latter's settlement. DT aged 53 knew William Underhayes (dead) who was born in the Old Workhouse of Yeovil Somerset and Elizabeth Underhayes his mother died there at the birth and William later married Rebecca. Rebecca says she married at Christ Church London 10 Aug 1788 and has 4 children, Mary Underhayes 14, William Underhayes 11, Martha Underhayes 8 and Maria Underhayes 16 mos. William departed this life 10 Jan."

Her son William, was 50 at the time of burial according to the record but he was buried by the Parish so not entirely reliable but would put Elizabeth's death at c1760. I have seen this name written in many ways which doesn't help. William's burial is recorded as "Hunderrag"!

Link to her son, William - http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=12852&highlight=william+underhay

[Shona]

The only thing that I could turn up was a marriage between Edward Underhay and Elizabeth Orsborn in Hennock, Devon, 1744 - Boyd's Marriage Index.

The name Underhay and variants is more common in Devon than Somerset, but Hennock a about 60 miles from Yeovil.

The info you have comes from Poor Law records. I wonder how truthful people were when applying for relief?

[Sue from Southend]

Yes, the name does seem to originate in Devon. Obviously I don't know but I got the impression that Elizabeth may have been unmarried when she gave birth to William. I'd have thought a father may have been mentioned if there was one around. But as you say there's no knowing whether they were being totally honest anyway!

[Phoenix]

If you were illegitimate, then your place of settlement was where you were born. If your parents were married, it would be the more complex issue of where your father had his place of settlement.

"He knoweth not" is the usual get out if you didn't want to be removed to the other side of the country. Born in the workhouse would be a claim which could be tested and acted upon. What happened to Rebecca? In theory, she could have been removed to Yeovil herself.

[Sue from Southend]

Well that's what I thought, too Phoenix. There's no trace of Rebecca in London after the Settlement Exam, but there is a Yeovil burial of a Rebecca Underhay in 1815 which I believe is on FMP. She would be about the right age but I don't know how to prove it one way or the other! There is also a burial for a Maria Underhays in 1810 in Yeovil but it doesn't give an age :mad:

However one of her daughters, Mary, was married in London in 1818 and another daughter Martha was married in London in 1838. Mary was 14 at the time of the Settlement Exam and Martha about 8yrs old. Would they have been left in London if Rebecca was shipped off to Yeovil? Or perhaps they went with her and came back later. Again I don't know how to find out apart from a long visit to Somerset Archives!

[Phoenix]

The three eldest could have been apprenticed out. Yeovil might have paid for this to happen in London so that the children could gain new settlements in their own right. Maria as a baby would have travelled with her mother.

Alternatively, the elder children might have slipped back to London at a later date because it was what they knew and where they reckoned they had a better chance of earning a living. You see some people continually being removed, but finding their way back to places where they had no settlement.

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks Phoenix. Your knowledge of the Poor Laws is brilliant! IF Yeovil had paid for London apprenticeships would they have been in Holborn (where the Settlement exam was from) or could they have been sent elsewhere? I ask because I've looked at the few Holborn apprenticeship records that exist on Ancestry with no luck but would like to know if it's a possiblity before I start trawling through other Parishes! Mind you, knowing my lot I'd probably find someone from my tree amongst them - I can't believe how many of my ancestors were in the Workhouse or receiving assistance :o

[tenterfieldjulie]

I wonder if part of the reason why so many of my ancestors came to Aus was due to fear of ending up in the workhouse.
Sponsored Migration had preference for a fit male between a certain age ... the reason why ages were often wrong .. up if the children were too young and down if the adults were considered too old .. So I don't think a widow with children would be considered.
I had a blacksmith in Bucks and an old lady in Cornwall who I think ended up in the infirmary ..
I am ashamed to say I understand very little about the poor law records .. I think your parish of birth had a responsibility for you if you couldn't look after yourself? Julie

[kiterunner]

I am ashamed to say I understand very little about the poor law records .. I think your parish of birth had a responsibility for you if you couldn't look after yourself? Julie

It was your parish of settlement, which is why the settlement examinations. This was often your parish of birth, but settlement could be acquired by serving an apprenticeship or renting a house for at least 7 years in another parish. A woman lost her own settlement rights on marriage and acquired her husband's, which could mean that if her husband abandoned her she was sent to some place at the back of beyond where she had never been before! Well, or told she was to be sent there - people often disappeared before they could actually be "removed".

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Kate, I remember a reference to removal and I wondered why. I have seen sojourner on marriages and thought it meant you were born in another parish, yet I know in one case she was born there, but maybe she then lived elsewhere and so the confusion. Women were certainly terribly vulnerable if they were abandoned.

[Shona]

According to the settlement records, Elizabeth died in Yeovil workhouse after giving birth to her son.

So how did Deborah Tomlinson know this? Was she from Somerset?

Deborah died in Gray's Inn Workhouse and was buried on 25 January 1812, St Andrew Holborn.

Deborah Burbridge married William Tomlinson on 10 April 1787 at St Andrew, Holborn. She and William had at least four children - all baptised at St Andrew Holborn - Joseph (13 July 1788), Thomas (25 Oct 1791), William (31 March 1793) and Mary (born in the Lying in Hospital, Endell Street, Holborn and baptised on 15 October 1795).

There is a John Underhayes, a 48-year-old coal porter, who was born in Yeovil, living in London in 1861. I wonder if they are connected?

Also, I found an Ann Burbidge, who died on 16 Jan 1793, aged 48. She was form London and buried in Durston, Somerset, on 24 Jan 1793.

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks Shona.

I had looked at Deorah Tomlinson and found most of what you have detailed here (apart from the birth in the Lying in Hospital) Rebecca's maiden name was Leveridge (or a variation of) and in 1761 a Mary Burbage married a William Leveridge at Yeovil (FreeReg) I know the name is slightly different but it does suggest to me that there may have a relationship between Rebecca and Deborah. There are a lot of Burbages and Leveridges in Yeovil mid 18th C, far more than there were Underhays!
Sadly the Baptisms on FreeReg @ Yeovil only seem to go back to 1780s so I can't find Deborah or Rebecca there. I thought I'd found Rebecca's parentage http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14342&highlight=rebecca+leveridge but I have since disproved this but cannot find another candidate. I still think that there is a Yeovil connection but can't prove it yet!

According FreeReg again, John Underhayes in your post above was born 1808 to a Mary Underhayes, no father named.

Where did you find the Ann Burbidge burial?

[Shona]

The Ann Burbige burial was on Ancestry.

Well, I thought it was Ancestry - can't find it now. :o

[kiterunner]

Yes, it's in the "Somerset, England, Extracted Parish Records" on ancestry:
ancestry (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=epr_Somerset%2c&rank=0&=%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c% 2c%2c%2c&gsfn=ann*&gsln=burbidge&sx=&gs1co=1%2cAll+Countries&gs1pl=1%2c+&year=&yearend=&sbo=0&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=0&h=109774&recoff=13+14+15+16)

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks Kite :)

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks to the new Somerset records on Ancestry I might (stress "might"!) have got Elizabeth and her parents but would like some other opinions....

In the Settlement Exam quoted at the start of this thread it is claimed that the mother of William Underhay died in the Yeovil Workhouse at the time of his birth. This information came from a woman I now believe to have been a child at this time so would have been reciting gossip or hearsay. With that in mind I found a baptism for William Underhaise 7 Feb 1756 in St John Yeovil http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60856/englb030d_d-p-yeo-j-2-1-2_m_00047/322589?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dpYq1852%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dSomersetParishE arly%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26gsfn%3ds%3fmon%26gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3 dunder*%26gsln_x%3d0%26msypn__ftp%3dYeovil%2c%2520 Somerset%2c%2520England%26msypn%3d1675790%26MSAV%3 d1%26uidh%3dzs8%26rank%3d1%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3 d20%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dBEEeEuMIgADtuAAY9iU-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults (about half way down on right hand page) but there is no parent named, just a surname.

On 19 Oct 1756 in St John Yeovil someone by the name of Underhaise is buried. No first name. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60856/englb030d_d-p-yeo-j-2-1-2_m_00098/328827?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dpYq1852%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dSomersetParishE arly%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26gsfn%3ds%3fmon%26gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3 dunder*%26gsln_x%3d0%26msypn__ftp%3dYeovil%2c%2520 Somerset%2c%2520England%26msypn%3d1675790%26MSAV%3 d1%26uidh%3dzs8%26rank%3d1%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3 d20%26fh%3d0&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults (second from bottom left hand page)
The "vicar" or whoever created this register very rarely names women - they are buried as Widow ..... or Wife of ....... those named would appear to be single or children so my theory is that Elizabeth was an unmarried mother and that she was not named in either record for that reason. Grasping a straws? Probably :d

Going further back a Betty Underhaise is baptised in 1724 d of Simon at St John Yeovil. I can't see another baptism that is remotely possible.

Opinions welcome!

[kiterunner]

It looks possible.

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks Kite - it's good to know that someone can see what I'm getting at! If only her son had named one of his children Simon......