Bert Kilvinton

[Zoemcdougall]

I am looking for a birth record/ and entry 1901 census for a Bert kilvinton born about 1890 in Oswestry Shropshire, He is on the 1911 Wales census living as a lodger with my great grandparents, a bookeeper on the railway. I would like to find out a bit more about him, if possible.

[Merry]

I this him?

Births June 1889

Kilvington Herbert Burnside Oswestry 6a 708

Listed as Herbert B Kilvington on the England 1901 census (on Ancestry).

[merleyone]

Shown at 6 Bridge Terrace, Oswestry in 1901 with parents, William & Maria J Kilvington plus six siblings.

merleyone

[Zoemcdougall]

Haven't seen this on my search, maybe due to the fact of the spelling of his surname on the 1911 Wales census, has Kilvinton not Kilvington, unless I've looked at the census incorrectly.

[Merry]

I didn't look at the 1911 census. I just searched Kil*ton born Osw*.

[Zoemcdougall]

Thankyou

[kiterunner]

He is listed on the Railways Staff Database on Cheshire Archives site as Herbert H Kilvington:
http://archives.cheshire.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=70

It is spelt Kilvinton on the 1911 census and it looks as though he wrote it in himself, as it is in different handwriting from the rest of the page. But he misspells the word "clerk" too (as clerck).

[Zoemcdougall]

Is there anyway of finding out how Bert/Herbert came to Lodge with my Great grandparents. Probably not but worth a try.

[Uncle John]

Well clearly the connection is that they both worked on the railway. Your ancestor was a foreman platelayer (looking after the railway tracks) and Bert was a booking clerk. And your ancestor's address is also a bit of a giveaway - Cambrian Crossing, Penrhyndeudraeth.

The fact that Mr Jones (born Sheffield) married (presumably) and had all his children in Montgomeryshire suggests that he (and presumably Bert too) worked for the Cambrian Railways (later part of the GWR). It's much less likely that they worked for the Festiniog (now spelt Ffestiniog) narrow-gauge railway, which also runs through Penrhyndeudraeth.

[Zoemcdougall]

Thankyou UJ, I know they were both with railway, but I wondered why my Great grandparents had him as their lodger, obviously the railway connection but could there be a chance of a family connection, long shot I know.

[JessBow]

I doubt there was, they perhaps were in tied accomodation and the railways said he could stay there too.

[Shona]

I doubt there was, they perhaps were in tied accomodation and the railways said he could stay there too.

The railway workers in my tree took in lodgers who were also railway workers. Don't recall them living in tied accommodation, though.

[Zoemcdougall]

Thankyou replies.

[Uncle John]

I think I may have made an interesting discovery (with help from elsewhere). Here is what my contact has said:

This is the last entry for Enumeration District 12 of Penrhyndaedraeth. The previous six entries are all for railway related occupations, five of them living at Boston Lodge [the railway works of the Festiniog Railway] and the sixth at Capel Cottage which is, I think, on the road from Boston Lodge to Minffordd. There seems to be a certain standardisation in the responses which, given that this was the first census which was filled in by the householder rather than the enumerator, indicates that corporate guidance was being given. Six of the seven record their employer as Railway Company, the seventh, possibly Henry Ellis Jones, Stationmaster, filling it in for his dad the engine driver gives Festiniog Railway Co. I wonder whether these were all Festiniog employees whose census forms had all been collected together to hand over to the enumerator. This does not however prevent Bert Kilvinton who could have worked for either railway lodging with Edward H Jones, Foreman Plate layer of the Festiniog.

I suspect Cambrian Crossing is the Festiniog crossing on Quarry Lane just over halfway from Boston Lodge to Minffordd. On a contemporary map it is called Railway Lodge, it is now called, I believe, Lottie's Cottage.

I have asked whether any employment records for that period exist in the Ffestiniog Railway archives. If "Cambrian Crossing" is indeed the level crossing identified above, the cottage still exists and I can point you to a picture of it.

[kiterunner]

The 1911 census was not the first census filled in by the householder; it's just the first one for which the householders' forms have been kept.

If you look at the instructions on the back of the form it shows how the "Industry or Service" column should be filled in with Railway Company shown in some of the examples.
http://www.1911census.org.uk/sched.htm
On Edward Jones's form he wrote Worker in that column and it has been corrected to Railway Co. The C of Co does not match the C's which Edward wrote in the address, so it was probably corrected by the enumerator.

[Zoemcdougall]

Thankyou all once again in my quest to find out more about Edward & his lodger.