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BlueSavannah
17-03-13, 15:21
Hi,

In my tree I have Harriet Eastwood who was born in Sheffield on the 7th December 1829. She married Greaves Armitage at the Sheffield Cathedral on the 8th June 1851.

After the marriage, I cannot locate her anywhere until the 1891 census when she appears at 58 Herschell Road, Ecclesall Bierlow with Greaves and three unmarried daughters aged between 22 and 26. All the daughters' birthplaces are given as Alsace, Germany.

A couple of doors away at 64 Herschell Road is Louis Greaves Armitage who was aged 34 and born in France.

Are there any documents etc online that would help me locate the births of these children and maybe any others that Greaves & Harriet had? Are there any census for France & Germany?

Regards
kiterunner
17-03-13, 15:51
I think Alsace would actually have been in France when the daughters were born. I can't see them on the Overseas Births on Findmypast.

There are some Alsace websites on this Cyndi's List page:
http://www.cyndislist.com/france/locality/

I think you would need to know whereabouts in France Louis was born because all the records are held at a local level. There are censuses but they aren't online.
BlueSavannah
17-03-13, 16:05
Many thanks Kite for the link and information :)
Shona
17-03-13, 16:36
Intertesting!

Alsace was French when the children were born, but following the Franco-Prussian war (1870-1871), it was annexed by Germany. Technically, therefore, when they completed the census forms, Alsace was German.

There are on-line records. Alsace is divided into Bas-Rhin and Haut-Rhin.

Here is a link that will take you to the site for births, marriages and deaths for Bas-Rhin:
http://etat-civil.bas-rhin.fr/adeloch/index.php

This one has census records:
http://population.bas-rhin.fr/ellenbach/index.php

Haut-Rhin:
http://www.archives.cg68.fr/Services_Actes_Civils.aspx.

But...you have to search by commune not name.

On the plus side, the images are free to view.
Shona
17-03-13, 17:01
Was Googling and found this about the Great Sheffield Flood of 1864. It mentions a Greaves Armitage. I wonder how he is related to your Greaves Armitage?

http://mick-armitage.staff.shef.ac.uk/sheffield/photogal/picflud4.html
BlueSavannah
17-03-13, 17:13
Many thanks for the links Shona, no idea what commune they were but will try to work out how to use the site :)

I initially thought that the Greaves Armitage who died in the Sheffield Flood was my missing Greaves after not finding them on census, but then that changed when I found the 1891 census. I am not sure if they are related but a name like Greaves would suggest that its highly likely they were.
Janet
17-03-13, 19:01
Ancestry France has a tree with a Louis Greaves Armitage born 1858 in Mouterhouse, Moselle, Lorraine, France.

Louis Greaves Armitage - Ancestry France (http://trees.ancestry.fr/pt/RequestTreeAccess.aspx?tid=11618367&pid=-430627020)

Claire, our families have the same stomping grounds. Mine were a mile up the road from yours in Ecclesall Bierlow in 1891, and in 1911 mine were right around the corner from where yours had been in 1891.
ElizabethHerts
17-03-13, 19:07
Ancestry France has a tree with a Louis Greaves Armitage born 1858 in Mouterhouse, Moselle, Lorraine, France.

Louis Greaves Armitage - Ancestry France (http://trees.ancestry.fr/pt/RequestTreeAccess.aspx?tid=11618367&pid=-430627020)


The interesting thing is that the person's name is Carol Smith. I wonder if she is on the English vesion of Ancestry.
ElizabethHerts
17-03-13, 19:11
Yes, you can contact her here:

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/RequestTreeAccess.aspx?tid=11618367&pid=-430627020

Carol Smith appears to have photos etc., so she might be a good source of information.
kiterunner
17-03-13, 19:14
The different ancestry websites do have all the same records on them.
BlueSavannah
17-03-13, 19:18
Hi Janet & Elizabeth,

Many thanks for finding that private tree. I will send Carol a message now and hope to make contact with her.

Janet, quite a few of my branches are from the Ecclesall Bierlow area of Sheffield. Maybe our families have a distant connection somewhere :)
Shona
17-03-13, 19:25
Brilliant work, you two!

I checked the Alsace records for Mouterhouse and drew a blank. That's because it's in Lorraine...

'Mouterhouse est une commune française, située dans le département de la Moselle et la région Lorraine. Le village fait partie du Pays de *****e, du Parc naturel régional des Vosges du Nord et du bassin de vie de la Moselle-est.'
Shona
17-03-13, 19:26
Brilliant work, you two!

I checked the Alsace records for Mouterhouse and drew a blank. That's because it's in Lorraine...

'Mouterhouse est une commune française, située dans le département de la Moselle et la région Lorraine. Le village fait partie du Pays de *****e, du Parc naturel régional des Vosges du Nord et du bassin de vie de la Moselle-est.'

Those asterisks weren't there when I posted the info!
Shona
17-03-13, 19:41
The tree owner has a photo of Fanny Armitage - one of the girls born in 'Germany'.

The year of birth is 1865 in Mouterhouse, Moselle, Lorraine.
BlueSavannah
17-03-13, 19:52
Many thanks Shona.

I have sent the lady a message so hopefully she will respond and help me piece together the years they were in France/Germany.

Many thanks again to everyone for your help :)
ElizabethHerts
17-03-13, 21:04
I hope you get lots of information, Claire.
Shona
17-03-13, 21:27
Let us know what happens, Claire.
Janet
17-03-13, 23:09
Those asterisks weren't there when I posted the info!

You've been modded, Shona! The name of the place is B-i-t-c-h-e. :D
tenterfieldjulie
18-03-13, 05:37
lol
Shona
18-03-13, 11:24
Claire, I wonder if the move from Sheffield to Lorraine was connected to the steel industry?

I mentioned this thread to the OH last night and he suggested this as a possibility.

Having done a little bit of searching, there was a steel industry in Mouterhouse - the Forge de Mouterhouse - which employed 500 workmen in 1803.

This bit (if Greaves Armitage was working in the Mouterhouse steelworks) may explain why the family returned to England - the industry declined after the Germans annexed Alsace and Lorraine.

'En 1865, il y a douze fours à puddler, six trains de laminoirs, des marteaux pilons mais les forges sont en déclin après 1870, à cause de l'annexion et la concurrence allemande.'

Here's the rest of the info on the Forge de Mouterhouse from Wikepedia:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forge_de_Mouterhouse
Mary from Italy
18-03-13, 13:28
Those asterisks weren't there when I posted the info!

You fell foul of the swear-word checker :)
BlueSavannah
18-03-13, 15:32
lol re the swear word checker :D

The link with the steel industry is interesting and seems highly likely. Just re-checked Greaves' occupation on his 1851 marriage cert and he was a steel refiner. He's just listed as a pensioner on the 1891 census.

I sent a message to the lady on Ancestry last night but nothing yet. I will let you all know if she does get in touch :)