Munition Worker

[Muggins in Sussex]

In 1919, Edith Rathbone gave birth to an illegitimate son.

She is described on the boy's birth certificate (in the column for mother), as
"Edith Rathbone, a munition worker"

Is it unusual to put the mother's occupation on her child's birth cert ?

I imagine she would have led a fairly hard life, working in a munitions factory and having an illegitimate child. Would she have been paid much, and what were conditions like?

Her address is given as "Windsor Villa, Halton Brook, Halton" - I have been googling and can't find anything about the address - could it have been a home for unmarried mothers? - I don't know whether they existed in 1919.

That's about 4 questions in one - LOL

[maggie_4_7]

This gives an idea about munitions factories of 1919

http://deanocity3.piczo.com/coventryordnanceworks?cr=5&linkvar=000044

I know during WWI they were very very dangerous places to be.

They weren't much better in WWII my mother worked in a munitions factory in Coventry she lived in Rugby lucky enough she was off shift during the terrible Coventry Bombing raid in November 1940 although the actual munitions places weren't that touched because of the innacurate bombing and the rest of Coventry and its civilians bore the brunt of it.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks for the link Maggie -it looks pretty grim

[maggie_4_7]

You have heard of the family of Rathbones from Halton haven't you!

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.rathbone/143/mb.ashx

Is that you?

[kiterunner]

Is it unusual to put the mother's occupation on her child's birth cert ?


Quite usual on an illegitimate child's birth cert.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Quite usual on an illegitimate child's birth cert. - Thanks Kite :) - I did not know that

You have heard of the family of Rathbones from Halton haven't you!

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.rathbone/143/mb.ashx

Is that you?

Maggie, it's not me...but through it I found a related webpage ( http://kitwithers.fortunecity.com/rathbone/rathbone.html)

I was over the moon when I discovered it, and found lots of lovely "relatives" - 2 of whom had photos of one of my parents - and I had ( as a result of rummaging, some photos of some of their relatives. I have contributed to the site.

It was wonderful - at last I knew the name of my granny and had a photo of her- and it made me weep as she looked so like me- but I guess that was somehow wishful thinking as it subsequently turned out that she was not my granny - although she brought my parent up....so all the lovely "relatives" are not actually my relatives at all - I think :confused:

Sorry it's such a muddle

[kiterunner]

Joan, on that site that you've posted the link to, it says the following:

Hannah RATHBONE (bp 18.2.1894 All Saints,Runcorn) Bp record:
George Henry & Elizabeth, 18 Ellesmere Street, cooper
Birth registered Runcorn 1894 (March qtr). "Annie" in 1901 census.

m 7.6.1919 All Saints, Runcorn sp-George Ernest HOLLAND
Hannah was 25 spinster of Windsor Villa, Halton Brook, daughter of George Henry
RATHBONE (labourer);
George E. was 27, bachelor, boilermaker of 10 Holloway, Runcorn, son of George
HOLLAND (cooper);
Marriage by banns. Witnesses: Arthur RATHBONE & Elizabeth Ellen BAZLEY.

Does that help?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Oh thank you KiteRunner - somehow I had missed that :o

So maybe Edith was Hannah ?

[kiterunner]

I thought maybe they were sisters, or sisters-in-law, cousins, or something like that? Anyway, it looks as though Windsor Villa was the home of a Rathbone family who would presumably be related to Edith in some way!

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks again Kite - I think I'll look for Edith's birth

I just feel that something "odd" happened, because of the way my parent refuses to talk about things :confused:

[kiterunner]

Hannah's family in 1901:
38 Ellesmere Street, Runcorn
George H Rathbone Head M 33 Cooper Cheshire Runcorn
Annie E Do Wife M 30 Do Do
Arthur Do Son S 11 Do Do
Annie do Daur S 7 Do Do
James Do Son S 5 Do Do
George Do Son S 2 Do Do

[kiterunner]

Then in 1911 there is:
George Henry 43
Annie E 40
Arthur 21
Ada 19
Hannah 17
James 15
George 12
Jennie 9
Charles 7

[Muggins in Sussex]

Ooh thank you Kite

I am probably being very dim :d - but are you saying that you think Hannah is Edith?

Many thanks
Joan

[kiterunner]

D'oh - I missed Edith on the 1901! Same page as Hannah's family but next door to them!

40 Ellesmere St., Runcorn
Mary A. Boote Head Wid 60 Living on own means Cheshire Runcorn
Thomas Do Son S 38 Bricklayer Do Do
Charles Do Son S 24 Bricklayer Do Do
Albert Do Son S 19 Bricklayer Do Do
Harriet Rathbone GDaur S 13 General Servant (Domestic) Do Do
Edith Do GDaur S 9 Do Do

[kiterunner]

are you saying that you think Hannah is Edith?


No, I was just looking at Hannah's family on the various censuses to find the connection to Edith, and since I've now spotted that there is an Edith next door to Hannah's family in 1901, we should work out what exactly their connection is pretty soon! My guess is we will find out that they are sisters. Maybe Edith is Ada in 1911?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Oooh -Thank you Kite :)

[kiterunner]

There is no Ada Rathbone birth in Runcorn in 1891 and there is an Edith Rathbone Dec 1891 so I would think "Ada" is Edith. You could look at the actual image of the 1911 census to see if she is mistranscribed, and also to check whether she is George Henry's daughter. If it does say Ada on the actual image then I suppose your best bet might be to get Edith Rathbone's birth certificate to see if George Henry is her father.

[kiterunner]

Oh, and I forgot to check for George's marriage before:

Dec 1887 possible marriage between George Henry Rathbone and Annie Elizabeth Boote, Prescot district, on FreeBMD, can't see it on Lancashire BMD to check.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thank you very much for all that, Kite :)

I will look at the 1911 when I am next at Kew

[Margaret in Burton]

Joan

I will pm you.

[Margaret in Burton]

There is no Ada Rathbone birth in Runcorn in 1891 and there is an Edith Rathbone Dec 1891 so I would think "Ada" is Edith. You could look at the actual image of the 1911 census to see if she is mistranscribed, and also to check whether she is George Henry's daughter. If it does say Ada on the actual image then I suppose your best bet might be to get Edith Rathbone's birth certificate to see if George Henry is her father.

Just looked at the image for the 1911. It does say Ada, not Edith.

[Margaret in Burton]

1891 census has George Rathbone living with in laws James and Mary Boote of 16 Ellesmere St, Runcorn.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=CHSRG12_2831_2832-0265&fn=George&ln=Rathbone&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1649557

There are grandchildren Harriet and Arthur aged 2 and 1 listed underneath George who appears to be married to Elizabeth.

1901 census Harriet and Edith aged 13 and 9 are living with Mary Boote now a widow.
George is next door and Arthur aged 11 listed as his son.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=CHSRG13_3331_3335-0798&fn=Edith&ln=Rathbone&st=d&ssrc=&pid=19772083

George is at 38 Ellesmere St and Mary Boote at 40.

George's wife in 1891 is Elizabeth and in 1901 and 1911 Annie E.

I will send the 1911 image to Joan

Address in 1911 is still 38 Ellesmere St

[Margaret in Burton]

I am sending the images of 1891, 1901 and 1911 to Joan. Unsure if she has Ancestry.

[Margaret in Burton]

George Rathbone appears to be living with grandparents in 1881.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=CHSRG11_3513_3517-1007&fn=George+H.&ln=Rathbone&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1423902

and in 1871, with grandparents.

I bet he was the illegitimate son of one of the daughters

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=CHSRG10_3690_3692-0360&fn=George+Henry&ln=Rathbone&st=d&ssrc=&pid=24759385

Agree that Joan should get the bith cert of Edith to be sure.

[Margaret in Burton]

Birth Edith Rathbone

Dec qtr 1891 - Runcorn - 8a 219

[Margaret in Burton]

Birth George Henry Rathbone

Jun qtr 1867 - Runcorn - 8a 197

[borobabs]

Been following this as my Mam also worked in on but it was Hutton ?? rugby or nearer carnt remember now what place to work I know she said she saw pleanty of peolpe get hurt in there ;

[Muggins in Sussex]

I am sending the images of 1891, 1901 and 1911 to Joan. Unsure if she has Ancestry.

Safely received, thanks Margaret :) - I only have access to Ancestry in the Library....
Many, many thanks

These Rathbones make me dizzy :d

[Muggins in Sussex]

There is no Ada Rathbone birth in Runcorn in 1891 and there is an Edith Rathbone Dec 1891 so I would think "Ada" is Edith. You could look at the actual image of the 1911 census to see if she is mistranscribed, and also to check whether she is George Henry's daughter. If it does say Ada on the actual image then I suppose your best bet might be to get Edith Rathbone's birth certificate to see if George Henry is her father.

No, it's not mistranscribed... definately Ada on the original 1911 census - daughter of George Henry and Annie E ...aged 19 - no occupation given

Strangely, beneath the names of George and Annie, the line below gives another entry which has been crossed out - it looks like "Harris Rathbone"


Thank your Margaret :d

[kiterunner]

I still think it's likely that Ada is Edith, but I suppose you would need something to confirm it, e.g. Edith's birth certificate.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks, Kite - I will send for the birth cert

Strange about the entry which is crossed out - or is that not uncommon? :confused:

[kiterunner]

Sorry, what entry that's crossed out, Joan?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Sorry, what entry that's crossed out, Joan?

Sorry Kite - you are too quick for me LOL :d - I think I was amending my post while you were replying - so I've got things in a muddle as usual :confused: sorry :o

Beneath the names of George and Annie, on line three, there is an entry which has been crossed out - name only has been entered - I think it says "Harris Rathbone" - :confused:

[kiterunner]

Probably they filled it in in advance, and included the name of a member of the family who they were expecting to be at home on census night and then when the actual night came, he was away for the night so they had to cross him off.

[Merry]

Are you sure they didn't start writing Hannah, but then realised they had missed out Arthur who was older?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks Kite and Merry - I think it's definately "Harris" - I can see the dot on the "i" LOL

How strange... :confused:

[Margaret in Burton]

No, it's not mistranscribed... definately Ada on the original 1911 census - daughter of George Henry and Annie E ...aged 19 - no occupation given

Strangely, beneath the names of George and Annie, the line below gives another entry which has been crossed out - it looks like "Harris Rathbone"


Thank your Margaret :d

I think that is Harriet Rathbone, Joan

If you look at the previous census there is a Harriet

With Edith in 1901

[Margaret in Burton]

Try this:

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/margharrison/untitled.jpg

[Merry]

Surely it's just a mistake? There are no birth regs for a Harris Rathbone.

[Margaret in Burton]

Surely it's just a mistake? There are no birth regs for a Harris Rathbone.

Harriet Rathbone - Runcorn - Dec qtr 1888 - 8a 205

I reckon this is the one it's supposed to be, she's on the 1891 census aged 2

[Merry]

Sorry, that's what I meant :o Harriet wasn't at home, but they started writing her in.

[Margaret in Burton]

I can't find Harriet in 1911 although she appears to have married in 1912 to Samuel H Basnett
Sep qtr 8a 576 in Runcorn

[Merry]

Maybe she was at home in the end?

[Margaret in Burton]

I've just noticed that the 1911 census says that George and Annie had 9 children and 1 had died. They had been married 23 years by 1911.

Assuming they are all the same family even though some are living with grandparents:

Harriet & Arthur are on the 1891

the 1901 adds :

Annie, who becomes Hannah in 1911
James
George
Edith (who lives next door as does Harriet) (Ada in 1911?)

the 1911 adds:

Jennie
Charles

That's the eight who lived. I wonder who died. Probably between census

[Olde Crone]

I know I am going to regret this, but I have Rathbones in my tree, including an Edith, who was known in the family as "Auntie Adie" - Adie being the way they pronounced "Edie".

No, not the same Rathbones but probably connected 20 generations before. Remember the Rathbone saga on GR, Merry?!

OC

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks everyone

So it looks as though Ada was Edith - I wonder where Harriet was in 1911 :confused:

OC, my Rathbones are almost all from Sheffield - where are yours from? I'm sure you will have brought back many heppy memories for Merry!:d

[Merry]

*lies in darkened room with a large brandy*

Had you noticed Rathbone is an anagram of 'be a thorn' (in our sides?)? :rolleyes:

[garstonite]

Hiya....Garston is only 5 miles from Runcorn so I might be able to help you here.The Rathbone family here in Liverpool is a well known family and there`s Rathbone Rd / Rathbone school .Runcorn and Widnes became the towns to manufacture chemicals for Liverpool.The Manchester Ship canal starts at Runcorn straight off the Mersey...The only munitions factory I know of in this area was in Speke...Rootes car manufacturers became the munitions factory during WW2...nor sure about WW1..do you know whether the munitions factory was in Runcorn ?....in the 1960`s Runcorn became a "new town" as an overspill housing area for Liverpool.If I can help in any way let me know....allan;)

[kiterunner]

Joan, are you sure that Harriet is the one whose marriage you mentioned, or could she have died before 1911? I have heard that some parents thought they had to list all their children on the 1911 census, including those who had died, so it could be that they wrote her name in and then it was crossed out because she was dead?

[Margaret in Burton]

There doesn't appear to be a death for Harriet though Kate.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Hiya....Garston is only 5 miles from Runcorn so I might be able to help you here.The Rathbone family here in Liverpool is a well known family and there`s Rathbone Rd / Rathbone school .Runcorn and Widnes became the towns to manufacture chemicals for Liverpool.The Manchester Ship canal starts at Runcorn straight off the Mersey...The only munitions factory I know of in this area was in Speke...Rootes car manufacturers became the munitions factory during WW2...nor sure about WW1..do you know whether the munitions factory was in Runcorn ?....in the 1960`s Runcorn became a "new town" as an overspill housing area for Liverpool.If I can help in any way let me know....allan;)

Thank you, Allan :) I'm afraid I know nothing more about the munitions factory, other than the occupation as described on the birth certificate. If I can find out any more I'll let you know.

Joan, are you sure that Harriet is the one whose marriage you mentioned, or could she have died before 1911? I have heard that some parents thought they had to list all their children on the 1911 census, including those who had died, so it could be that they wrote her name in and then it was crossed out because she was dead?

There doesn't appear to be a death for Harriet though Kate.

Thanks Kite and Margaret - am thoroughly confused about Harriet now! :confused: LOL

[kiterunner]

Maybe she was one of those suffragettes who stayed out all night so they wouldn't be listed on the census, and her father wrote her name on the list anyway, but she insisted he cross it out!

[Muggins in Sussex]

What a lovely idea, KiteRunner :)