When did Elizabeth die?

[Kit]

Elizabeth Budden was born abt 1775 according to the Australian 1828 census. She married Reuben Buckner on 23/11/1788 at Cranborne Dorset. She came to Australia on board the Pitt in 1792 as a free person. Reuben was a convict and died on the voyage or on arrival in Australia. There is no record of his death.

Elizabeth took up with Richard Tuckwell and they had their first child in 1793. They had 7 children, the last in 1805.

The relationship ended, Richard married someone else and Elizabeth is reported to have had a child Ellen in 1808 (I can't find a birth) to Patrick Kirk. Elizabeth and Patrick are reported to have married in 1810 but I can't find that either. They had 2 more children in 1810 and 1812.

Elizabeth did use the surname Kirk.

Patrick died in 1837 in Richmond NSW. Well I hope he died, I have found a burial transcription, but not a death registration.

It is assumed Elizabeth died by 1857 as a minister in Richmond died in 1858 and asked for masses to be said for Elizabeth and Patrick. Many ancestry trees have her dying in 1857 in Richmond but the Elizabeth Kirk death on NSW BDM is not hers. It is a girl in her 20's.

Some ancestry trees have Elizabeth marrying Cornelius Donovan 2 months after Patrick died in 1837. I have emailed every ancestry tree owner but haven't heard back yet. My problem with this marriage is that the registration is in the name Budden. To me it should be in the name Kirk, unless she didn't really marry him and then it should be Buckner.

What I would like to find is her death. Can anyone help?

[HarrysMum]

Toni....have you seen the cert for the Budden marriage?

My gg grandmother 'seperated' from her husband after they came to Aus. and then took up with another fellow and had 6 kids with him. She took his name although she never married him and they were well known business people.

He died and she married a man many years her junior quite quickly. This time she did actually marry. I have the cert. She calls herself a widow although her real husband didn't die for many years....lol

They got away with an awful lot back then in early Aus....lol

The name on the index is not her name on the actual cert.

You don't want to even start to hear about my other one who came in 1788.....lol

[kiterunner]

Patrick died in 1837 in Richmond NSW. Well I hope he died, I have found a burial transcription, but not a death registration.

It is assumed Elizabeth died by 1857...
What I would like to find is her death. Can anyone help?

I thought civil registration started in NSW in 1856? So there would be no death registration for Patrick if he died in 1837, and none for Elizabeth if she died before 1856 as seems quite likely. There may be a burial for her though.

[marquette]

If Patrick and Elizabeth were free settlers, then the authorities would have kept few records of them, nothing like the tabs they kept on convicts.

Lots of things get lost in the transposition from original to first index, to consolidated index to online index. Names get scrambled, miss-spelled and muddled up. May be Elizabeth reverted to Budden sometime during her time in Australia.

There was no real way to check on what the priest or registrar was told, so they would only record what the parties told them.

Before 1856, the only records are the baptism, marriage and burial registers from the various churches, collected and indexed by the NSW BDM Registrar.

So you would not find a birth or death registration for anyone before 1856. Patrick's burial records will be all there is for him. Marriage records would depend on the church itself.

Have you tried State Records ? There are lots of indexes and microfilms which are not on-line and you have to go and look at them in the Reading Room at Kingswood. The staff are very knowledgable and helpful. On one shelf there, I found a bound volume which was a list of the burials by a Windsor area funeral director - not as early as you are after, but there are many things there that you would not think of looking for.

What about an obit in the local paper ? If the priest wanted masses said for Patrick and Elizabeth long after Patricks death, they must have been quite well-known locally.


Di

[Kit]

Toni....have you seen the cert for the Budden marriage?

You mean the marriage to Donovan? No I haven't seen that cert. I've messaged everyone who has that message on ancestry to see if anyone has seen it but I've only had one reply. I have a copy of the parish register for her first marriage to Buckner.

I thought civil registration started in NSW in 1856? So there would be no death registration for Patrick if he died in 1837, and none for Elizabeth if she died before 1856 as seems quite likely. There may be a burial for her though.

NSW BDM count parish registers for the early years and those registers are on the index from 1788. They appear as V--- on the indexes. Patrick's burial did not make the online index but has made the parish transcription. Elizabeth failed even the transcription if the ancestry trees are right.

If Patrick and Elizabeth were free settlers, then the authorities would have kept few records of them, nothing like the tabs they kept on convicts.

Lots of things get lost in the transposition from original to first index, to consolidated index to online index. Names get scrambled, miss-spelled and muddled up. May be Elizabeth reverted to Budden sometime during her time in Australia.

There was no real way to check on what the priest or registrar was told, so they would only record what the parties told them.

Before 1856, the only records are the baptism, marriage and burial registers from the various churches, collected and indexed by the NSW BDM Registrar.

So you would not find a birth or death registration for anyone before 1856. Patrick's burial records will be all there is for him. Marriage records would depend on the church itself.

Have you tried State Records ? There are lots of indexes and microfilms which are not on-line and you have to go and look at them in the Reading Room at Kingswood. The staff are very knowledgable and helpful. On one shelf there, I found a bound volume which was a list of the burials by a Windsor area funeral director - not as early as you are after, but there are many things there that you would not think of looking for.

What about an obit in the local paper ? If the priest wanted masses said for Patrick and Elizabeth long after Patricks death, they must have been quite well-known locally.


Di

Patrick was originally a convict but there is not a lot on him. Patrick apparently sold the priest a fair bit of land so I am guessing that is why he wanted the masses. I can't find any mention on trove but am not sure if the local papers are on there. I can't get out to Kingswood very often. I know names get left of the BMD indexes my 5g grandma never made it off the original index.