View Full Version : Records for Sunderland and 18thC Scotland
BK6 updated from this thread
Any bright ideas to find more on this family please......
Thomas Purvis died in Enfield in 1828. From his will I know he had four surviving children. I know all about what happened to them, but only know where one was baptised. The children are:
Elizabeth 1769
Thomas 1773
Rebecca 1784
Sophia 1791 (born at Liberty of Norton Folgate, bap at an independent church - BMD registers)
(birth years are approx for the first three, calc from age at death):
Thomas's wife was Sarah and she died in 1824 in Enfield.
Thomas was b abt 1746 and Sarah abt 1749.
Yesterday I found that Thomas and Sarah married in 1783 and they were widow and widower. (LMA archives, marriage at St Mary Islington, Sarah OTP and Thomas of Liberty of Norton Folgate. Licence says he was a cordwainer which fits with occ of shoemaker and leather cutter on other records)
So......I have yet to find a bap for Rebecca or the older two children, a burial for Thomas's first wife or a marriage to her. I have not found a first marriage or a death for Sarah's first husband.
Corrie and Purvis are Scottish names.
I believe another branch of the Purvises came from Eyemouth in Berwickshire, arriving in London about the late 1790s. (I know Elizabeth Purvis b abt 1769 married John Purvis in 1800 in London and I'm fairly sure he was born in Eyemouth and most probably was a relation). I don't know if Thomas Purvis b 1746 was also from Eyemouth.
The only other clue comes from Thomas's will (written Feb 1828) in which he says:
pay unto my sister Elizabeth Nelson of Sunderland in the county of Durham four pounds a year during her natural life
I have got nowhere with Elizabeth Nelson.
I'm totally inexperienced with Scottish records (a contact seems to have access to Eyemouth baptisms but at the moment I don't know where she is looking and I'm struggling with our emails a bit!) and don't know much about Sunderland either, so any tips would be great :)
kiterunner
08-02-13, 08:06
Has Sarah got a surname on her marriage to Thomas?
For Scottish records it's usually best to look on FamilySearch first and then if there is anything you can't find on there or want to view the image for, go onto Scotland's People, and make sure not to pay for anything until you are absolutely certain you need to view it!
kiterunner
08-02-13, 08:11
Eyemouth baptisms are on FamilySearch - restrict country to Scotland and put Eyemouth in as the birthplace and they should come up. Lots of Purvises there.
kiterunner
08-02-13, 08:13
The only Thomas Purvis I can see on FamilySearch baptised at Eyemouth around the right time for Thomas sr is 3 Apr 1752, son of Joseph.
kiterunner
08-02-13, 08:18
There is a possible for Thomas jr at Eyemouth (again, from FamilySearch) - Thomas Purves baptised 16 Jun 1776, parents Thomas Purves and Helen Cockburn. That couple also had a daughter Helen born 22 Feb 1779 and baptised at Eyemouth Feb 1779.
What time frame have you got for Elizabeth Nelson in Sunderland?
kiterunner
08-02-13, 08:31
Durham Records Online has an Elizabeth Nelson buried in Sunderland in 1836, age 99, abode Poorhouse. Also one buried in 1855 age 78, abode Bishopwearmouth, too young maybe.
http://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/index.php
kiterunner
08-02-13, 08:35
The North East Inheritance database has a will for the Elizabeth Nelson who was buried in 1855 but not the 1836 one (not surprising since she was in the poorhouse). The other Elizabeth Nelsons on there are too early:
http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/data/intro.php
Elizabeth NELSON, widow, of Foyle Street in the Borough of Sunderland in the county of Durham [Sunderland, County Durham].
Date of death: 7 January 1855
Date of probate: 23 January 1855
•will, 18 December 1852 (DPRI/1/1855/N2/1-3)
•registered copy of will, 18 December 1852 (DPRI/2/61 p50-51)
What time frame have you got for Elizabeth Nelson in Sunderland?
Only that she was alive in 1828 and was probably the sister of Thomas who was b abt 1746.
If the Elizabeth Nelson who died in 1855 was 78 then she should have been born in about 1777, so would have to be a half sister at best. The 99 year old in 1836 makes her a few years older than Thomas. If she was still getting £4 a year I don't think that that would preclude her from being in the poorhouse.
Wouldn't it be nice if I could find a Purvis/Nelson marriage!?
Thanks for telling me Eyemouth is on the IGI! I have really been struggling to replicate what my contact says she has found (nothing on this branch, only on the other one), so I will try harder now.
Sorry Kate.....Sarah's name was Mrs Corrie when she married Thomas Purvis.
Don't bother looking at any trees on Ancestry as every one I've looked at is hopelessly wrong!!
The only Thomas Purvis I can see on FamilySearch baptised at Eyemouth around the right time for Thomas sr is 3 Apr 1752, son of Joseph.
Also from Family Search, Elizabeth Purvis, baptised in Eyemouth, 13 Jan 1754, father is Joseph.
So if those were the right Thomas and Elizabeth, we would need a different Elizabeth Nelson death than the two Kate found.
Also, if Thomas wasn't bap until 1752 (assuming he was a baby/toddler) then his first child in 1769 seems unlikely (though of course I have only calculated that dob from Elizabeth Purvis's burial record).
I am starting to feel this might be a hopeless case! lol It's worse when you are presented with clues......
kiterunner
08-02-13, 10:22
There's an Andrew Corrie buried 12 Mar 1782 at Bunhill Fields. Possible for Sarah's first husband?
kiterunner
08-02-13, 10:28
And there is a public tree on ancestry with a John Corrie who married a Sarah Hogg 19 Feb 1771 at Edmonton, Middlesex, and then died in 1772. They have Sarah Hogg's birth as 4 Jul 1748, King's Weigh House Independent Church, London, England, and her death as "after 1783" which I presume means she is named in her father's will - a Peregrine Hogg who died in 1783. Also it shows Sarah Hogg as having sisters named Sophia and Rebecca, among others. So it might be worth looking into, though of course it is probably a wild goose chase!
kiterunner
08-02-13, 10:33
Comparing the way "Sarah" is written on the two marriages, it may or may not be the same handwriting!
kiterunner
08-02-13, 10:40
TNA has the will of Peregrine Hogg 24 Apr 1783, and of Peregrine Hogg 28 Apr 1824 who is supposed to be Sarah's brother. But Peregrine sr died before Thomas Purvis and Sarah Corrie's marriage, so unlikely to be much help, and Peregrine jr had a wife (according to that public tree) so his will might not mention sisters.
But ooooh - since I had to use that new "Discovery" thingy on TNA to search for the wills, it also came up with some other stuff, including a court case from 1845 involving a Peregrine Hogg Purvis!
kiterunner
08-02-13, 10:47
Peregrine Hogg Purvis's father was John Purvis, a tailor (or sailor?), according to his marriage cert. Peregrine married Mary Grout in 1844 and is a widower, age just says "full age". On the 1871 census he is 65, living Edmonton, born City of London.
Oh, I believe you have come across Peregrine Hogg Purvis before! Will wait for you to look at this...
Peregrine Hogg Purvis died 5 August 1880. His personal estate was worth under £140,000. The details are on Ancestry.
kiterunner
08-02-13, 11:05
Shona, I found that Merry had a 5-page thread about Peregrine Hogg Purvis from a couple of years ago when I googled his name! Be too much of a coincidence if it wasn't the same Sarah, I reckon.
Here is PHP's Freedom of the City of London Admission:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2052&iid=32512_a064400-00337&fn=Peregrine+Hogg&ln=Purvis&st=d&ssrc=&pid=825759
He was admitted into the Company of Leather Sellers.
Sorry I went to Pilates!
Yes, Thomas Purvis is PHP's (ie Peregrine Hogg Purvis's) maternal grandfather.
Peregrine married Mary Grout in 1844 and is a widower
In fact both his wives were called Mary Grout!
And there is a public tree on ancestry with a John Corrie who married a Sarah Hogg 19 Feb 1771 at Edmonton, Middlesex, and then died in 1772. They have Sarah Hogg's birth as 4 Jul 1748, King's Weigh House Independent Church, London, England, and her death as "after 1783" which I presume means she is named in her father's will - a Peregrine Hogg who died in 1783. Also it shows Sarah Hogg as having sisters named Sophia and Rebecca, among others. So it might be worth looking into, though of course it is probably a wild goose chase!
I hadn't seen that tree, but there are clearly loads of Hoggs in the Purvis tree as I've foud quite a few references to the Hoggs marrying in over 200 years, so I would think it very likely indeed that those are the right people (unless the tree owner had the same idea! lol)
I'm surprised I didn't see the Hogg/Corrie marriage at Edmonton though.......
Here's the marriage:
(ancestry's transcription)
Sarah Hogg 19 Feb 1771 John Corne Edmonton All Saints
Corne isn't a variable of Corrie on Ancestry's soundex, which is why I didn't see it. I really should have looked for Sarah Hogg as that's always a good surname to try with this family :o
Shona, I found that Merry had a 5-page thread about Peregrine Hogg Purvis from a couple of years ago when I googled his name! Be too much of a coincidence if it wasn't the same Sarah, I reckon.
Just read through the thread. Quite a lot on PHP online, too.
Agree about Sarah.
Just to add a bit of flavour. Here is a statement Thomas Purvis gave to the Old Bailey on 19 September 1810.
THOMAS BARNET was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 17th of July, from the person of John Firth, a pocket-book, value 1 s. six one pound bank notes, a five pound bank note, and a ten pound bank note, his property.
THOMAS PURVIS. I am a boot and shoemaker. On the 17th of July, I went down to Mill Wall, to see the Queen Charlotte launched. I was on the opposite side. In a few minutes after the ship was in the water, I heard a cry of stop thief; at that instant, a person brushed by my side, and not being able to get away by the pressure of the crowd, I got hold of his coat, and held him till Mr. Sapwell, an officer, came and took him; he was taken into a house; I examined the contents of the pocket-book, there was a ten pound note, a five pound note, and six one pound notes; the prisoner said he found it.
Q. Is there any body here that see him take it - A. No.
NOT GUILTY .
Second Middlesex jury, before Mr. Baron Wood .
Also, in 1781, he insured his shoemaking business for £400. The address was 36 Nortonfalgate.
Quite a lot on PHP online, too.
Yes, almost too much! lol
Thanks for those bits of info, Shona.
I've just been looking at more Ancestry trees and quite a few (don't know if they are copied from each other) have Thomas b abt 1746 as being from Co Durham, so not Eyemouth! Perhaps it's just a fluke that two Purvises got together in 1800?!
Durham Records Online have just one birth for Thomas Purvis in 1746...in Sunderland.
Family Search have Thomas Purvis born on 10 Jan 1746 and baptised on 13 Jan in Sunderland - father Thomas and mother, Magdalene Hardy.
Durham Records Online have Thomas marrying in Sunderland in 1744. Family Search has the date as 1 April 1744 - Thomas Purvis to Martha Hardy.
DRO have an ELizabeth Purvis marrying in Sunderland in 1750.
lol I just typed out a post virtually matching yours Shona and then I leaned on the touchpad and lost it all. I was just cursing when i saw your lovely post! Thanks!!!
There are quite a few Elizabeth Purvises marrying in the Sunderland area, but none to Nelson that I could see. Maybe she married twice. :(
I fancied this one:
Marriages Sunderland Elizabeth Purviss 1768
but sadly, this one:
Marriages Sunderland Francis Nelson 1768
seems to have married Isabell Hall according to a submidded IGI entry. :(
Curious. There's an Elizabeth Purvis marrying a George Corrie in Haughton-le-Spring in Co Durham on 14 May 1836.
kiterunner
08-02-13, 13:38
but sadly, this one:
Marriages Sunderland Francis Nelson 1768
seems to have married Isabell Hall according to a submidded IGI entry. :(
The Joiner Marriage Index has the same.
The 1768 marriage for Elizabeth Purvis is to Alexander Bain. I can't make a marriage Bain to Nelson appear though. :o
There's an Elizabeth Purvis marrying a George Corrie in Haughton-le-Spring in Co Durham on 14 May 1836.
lol ;(:)
There's a death of a Rebecca Sophia Purvis in 1877. The executor of her will is none other than Peregrine Hogg Purvis - described as her nephew. Her estate was worth £9,000. These people were pretty wealthy.
Rebecca Sophia's parents are John and Elizabeth Purvis and she was born on 1 June 1809, baptised on 30 June in London.
The person who died in 1877 is Sophia Purvis and she is Peregrine's aunt. She was born in 1791 and is the last child listed in my first post. Rebecca Sophia Purvis b 1809 was Peregrine's sister and she became Mrs John Frederick Feeney and died in 1849 in Warwickshire. :)
Searding around for Rebecca Purvis, I've found an Archibald Purvis and wife Rebecca having children in St Andrew, Holborn:
Mary, 25 Dec 1693
Amelia, 16 Feb 1695
Eleanor, 17 Oct 1699
Burials at St Andrew, Holborn:
Catherine, 14 June 1703
Emillia, 2 September 1696
Also noticed the burial of a Mrs Thomas Purvis in St Andew, Enfield. It says she was from Stepney and was aged 61 when buried on 7 February 1834.
The Elizabeth Nelson who died aged 99 in 1836 has a death notice in the Newcastle Journal, Saturday 26 November 1836! Sadly, this is all it said:
In the Poorhouse, Sunderland on the 20th inst, aged 99, Elizabeth Nelson.
There's a ship called The Elizabeth Nelson and it's irritating my newspaper research.
Searding around for Rebecca Purvis, I've found an Archibald Purvis and wife Rebecca having children in St Andrew, Holborn:
Mary, 25 Dec 1693
Amelia, 16 Feb 1695
Eleanor, 17 Oct 1699
Burials at St Andrew, Holborn:
Catherine, 14 June 1703
Emillia, 2 September 1696
Also noticed the burial of a Mrs Thomas Purvis in St Andew, Enfield. It says she was from Stepney and was aged 61 when buried on 7 February 1834.
I've not come across any Archibald Purvises.
That burial is extremely curious I must have seen it before, but have not used it for anything!!). Note it says "(vide No 2237) late book)".
I imagine Late book just refers to the previous register, but more importantly I recognise that number, 2237.
The burial of Mrs Elizabeth Purvis (dau of Thomas and wife of John) who was also buried at Enfield, but in 1829, says the following in the first column:
entry No 2280: Mrs Elizabeth Purvis wife of John Purvis, a shoemaker, London St. Daughter of the late Mr Thomas Purvis, vide 2237
Burial 2237 is the 1828 entry for Thomas Purvis, husband of Sarah Hogg/Corrie and father of Elizabeth. One might have assumed the burial you found was for Thomas's widow, but Sarah died in 1824 (so before Thomas) and in his will he asks to be buried with her. There's no mention of any subsequent wife, so I'm at a loss as to who Mrs Thomas Purvis is. Thomas had a son, Thomas but his wife, Margaret, didn't die until after the 1851 census.
So, there's a mystery for you ......I have to go and create some lamb rogan josh and a chicken korma now.....back soon!
Doh! Looked again and realised it's MR Thomas Purvis not Mrs!! So, it's Thomas's son Thomas and I already have the details on my tree!! lol
*goes for a lie down*
*ignores starving family* :o
I have to go and create some lamb rogan josh and a chicken korma now.....back soon!
Me, too, got to sort out the plumbing or no hot water for us tonight. I paid a fortune for a plumber to sort out the problem in the past. But I watched. Just got to swap round the water inlets on the washing machine and then flush the hot water system with cold water to get rid of the air lock. I can do it, but usually flood the kitchen in the process.
*dons swimsuit and reaches for mop*
*DHL's emergency arm bands and flippers*
Good luck and thanks for your help today (and Kate's) :):):)
Ha! Fixed the hot water and central heating with no floods this time! Empenadas and patatas bravas warming up, so here's an update.
Both burial records for Mrs Thomas Purvis say she was from Stepney. The electoral register for 1832 has a Thomas Purvis Snr and Thomas Purvis Jnr, Radcliffe Highway, Tower Hamlets. The 1841 census has the following entry in Stepney:
Thomas Purvis, 65, bill poster, not born in county
Martha Purvis, 60, not born in county
Caroline Purvis, 20
But why would they be connected with your Enfield family?
kiterunner
08-02-13, 19:20
It looks like Mr to me, Shona - I think what they have transcribed as the "s" of Mrs is just a curly bit of the T of Thomas.
Ha! Fixed the hot water and central heating with no floods this time! Empenadas and patatas bravas warming up, so here's an update.
Both burial records for Mrs Thomas Purvis say she was from Stepney. The electoral register for 1832 has a Thomas Purvis Snr and Thomas Purvis Jnr, Radcliffe Highway, Tower Hamlets. The 1841 census has the following entry in Stepney:
Thomas Purvis, 65, bill poster, not born in county
Martha Purvis, 60, not born in county
Caroline Purvis, 20
But why would they be connected with your Enfield family?
Glad you fixed it Shona. :)
I'm not sure what you mean by two burial records. The 1834 one actually says "Mr" as Kate said, but which is the second one?
If those e-roll entries are for the same family then Thomas senr will be the one who was buried in 1834 and Thomas junior will be his son b 1808 who hasn't yet been mentioned on this thread.
I don't know who those Purvises are that you have shown for the 1841 census. I have Margaret Purvis (widow of the Thomas who was buried in 1834) aged 60, b Scotland, living in MEOT with her daughter, also Margaret Purvis (ancestry have their surname as Punches). In 1851 Margaret senr is at 6 Grosvenor Place, MEOT with some of her Swan relatives (her maiden name), She is 72, boot and shoe maker b Edinburgh (why do we always get the birthplaces of the less crucial people?!! lol). When she died in 1859 she too was buried at Enfield.
The first link is between dau Elizabeth Purvis and her father Thomas and the second link is between son Thomas and the same father.
I've just noticed that Thomas Purvis (abt 1746-1828), or at least someone called Thomas Purvis, is living in the parish of Norton Folgate Middlesex from about 1760 onwards, according to the London, England, Land Tax Records, 1692-1932. Presumably the earliest entries are someone else (his father?!) but I know he was living there when he had his second marriage in 1783 and also for the baptism of his last daughter, Sophia, in 1791.
I'm wondering if there might be more records for him in the PRs for Norton Folgate, but though they are held at the LMA, they don't seem to be on the ancestry database. :(
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.