Help in finding my Great Grandmother please.

[Cheshanna]

I have only just started researching my family and have got as far as my grandmother (Rose Grice, born 1886 in Kingsley/Runcorn, Cheshire, Fathers name Robert Grice born 1849 died 1923) on my dads (James Rowlinson born 26/04/1912 in Halton Cheshire died 14/12.1997 Frodsham, Cheshire- father also James Rowlinson born 1886 Halton Cheshire, died c1962 Halton Cheshire)side however I am having problems finding her mother.

On the 1891 census she is shown has having a twin Lilly and four siblings however, on looking at other sources, I have found that the other four children are half siblings whose mother was Elizabeth Grice. I don't know how to go about tracing her (Rose Grice's) mother as she isn't shown on any of the records I've looked at - what can I do now?

Thanks

[Mary from Italy]

This looks like Rose's birth (from http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl ):

Births Sep 1886
Grice Rose Runcorn 8a 247

If you get her birth certificate, it'll give her mother's name.

You can order it here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

[ElizabethHerts]

Here's her baptism:

Forenames:Rose
Surname:Grice
Sex:Female
Christening Year:1886
Christening Date:05 Jul 1886
Date of Birth:
Place of Birth:
Father's Forenames:Robert
Father's Surname: Grice
Mother's Forename: Elizabeth
Mother's Surname:
Record Group:Part 1 - 1
Record Number:968
Parish:
City or Town: Kingsley
County:Cheshire
Record source: Diocese of Chester parish registers of baptisms 1538-1910


So Mum is Elizabeth.

[ElizabethHerts]

This looks like Robert and Elizabeth's marriage:

Forenames:Robert

Surname:Grice
Marriage Date:27 Feb 1876
Marriage Year:1876
Age:26y
Record Group:Part 1 - 1
Ref ID:item 1 p 166
Spouse's Forenames: Elizabeth
Spouse's Surname:Fryer
Spouse's Age:26y
Spouse's Father's Name: Samuel Fryer
Parish:All Saints
City / Town:Runcorn
County:Cheshire
Record source: Diocese of Chester parish registers of Marriages c1538-1910

[ElizabethHerts]

The family in 1881:

1881 Census
GRICE, Robert
RUNCORN, Cheshire
RG11 piece 3519 folio 25 page 4

FRYER, Samuel Head Widower M 63 Highway Labourer Kingsley, Cheshire
GRICE, Robert Son In Law Married M 31 Agril Labourer Kingsley, Cheshire
GRICE, Elizabeth Daughter Married F 31 Agril Labourer Wife Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, Mary Ann Grand Daughter Single F 10 Scholar Kingsley, Cheshire
GRICE, Thomas J Grand Son Single M 7 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire
GRICE, Hannah Grand Daughter Single F 4 7 Scholar Kingsley, Cheshire
GRICE, James Grand Son Single M 3 Kingsley, Cheshire
GRICE, Elizabeth Grand Daughter Single F 1 Kingsley, Cheshire

[Mary from Italy]

This will be Elizabeth's death, so she probably died in childbirth when Rose and Lily were born:

Deaths Sep 1886
Grice Elizabeth 36 Runcorn 8a 153

[ElizabethHerts]

Perhaps Elizabeth had a daughter out of wedlock before her marriage? Mary Ann Fryer is with them in 1881 too.

1871 Census
RUNCORN, Cheshire
RG10 piece 3693 folio 113 page 7

FRYER, Samuel Head M 54 Cheshire
FRYER, John Son M 23 Cheshire
FRYER, Betsy Daughter F 21 Cheshire
FRYER, Mary Ann Granddaughter F 0 1 Cheshire

[ElizabethHerts]

Here is Elizabeth's burial:

Forenames:Elizabeth
Surname:Grice
Burial Date:04 Aug 1886
Burial Year:1886
Age:36y
Residence:Kingsley
Parish:
City or Town:Kingsley
County:Cheshire
Burial Place:Kingsley
Notes:
Record Group:Part 1 - 1
Reference ID: p 68
Record source: Diocese of Chester parish registers of burials c1538-1910

[ElizabethHerts]

Have you got FMP, Cheshanna?

[ElizabethHerts]

1861 Census
RUNCORN, Cheshire
RG09 piece 2599 folio 108 page 3

FRYER, Samuel Head Widower M 43 Agricultural Labourer Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 19 Housekeeper Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, John Son M 12 Scholar Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, Betsey Daughter F 11 Scholar Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, Martha Daughter F 6 Scholar Kingsley, Cheshire

[Mary from Italy]

I suspect Cheshanna has Ancestry, because there's a tree there that shows Lily and Rose having a different (unnamed) mother from the other children; it also gives the wrong surname for Elizabeth and entirely the wrong age for Robert.

First rule of genealogy: don't trust other people's trees :)

[ElizabethHerts]

Finally Mum is alive here:

1851 Census
RUNCORN, Cheshire
HO107 piece 2164 folio 795 page 22

FRYER, Samuel Head Married M 33 Shoe Maker Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, Mary A Wife Married F 32 Shoe Maker's Wife Frodsham, Cheshire
FRYER, Hannah Daughter F 9 Scholar Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, Sarah Daughter F 5 Scholar Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, John Son M 2 Kingsley, Cheshire
FRYER, Betsey Daughter F 1 Infant Kingsley, Cheshire

[ElizabethHerts]

This looks like the marriage of Samuel Fryer and Mary Anne:

Forenames:Samuel
Surname:Fryer
Marriage Date:19 Jan 1841
Record Group:Part 1 - 1
Ref ID: item 5 p 45
Spouse's Forenames:Mary Anne
Spouse's Surname:Nickson
Spouse's Age:
Spouse's Father's Name:John Nickson
Parish:
City / Town:Frodsham
County:Cheshire
Record source: Diocese of Chester parish registers of Marriages c1538-1910

[Cheshanna]

Thank you all for your replies - I have only recently started and don't really know where to look properly yet.

ElizabethHerts - What is FMP

[ElizabethHerts]

Samuel and Mary Anne as newly-weds in 1841:

1841 Census
FRYER, Samuel
RUNCORN, Cheshire
HO107 piece 97 folio 10/11 page 15

FRYER, Samuel M 25 Shoemaker Cheshire
FRYER, Mary Ann F 20 Cheshire
HOUGHTON, John M 25 Cheshire

[ElizabethHerts]

Thank you all for your replies - I have only recently started and don't really know where to look properly yet.

ElizabethHerts - What is FMP

Sorry, I should have explained!

FMP is short for FindMyPast.
A lot of images of the parish registers are on there.

[MichaelBullock]

HI there
I've just found your request for information on Rose and Lilly Grice - they were the half sisters of my Great Grandfather Thomas Grice. I'm currently in NZ visiting one of my Grice relatives (!) and if you get in touch I can provide much more info - including some photos of the family.

Robert Grice (father) was married twice: first to Sarah Percival in 1874 who was mother to Thomas; and then to Elizabeth Fryer.

Best wishes

Michael Bullock

[Cheshanna]

Hello Michael, thank you so much for your reply. I would be very grateful for any information you can supply. Anna.