A long gap between children

[vallee]

Edward COCKSON born 1832 Shoreditch and
Caroline DEWAR born 1828 Stepney
marry in 1855 in Stepney

1861
Children
Edward John born 1856 Stepney
Mary caroline born 1857 Mile End
Annie Louisa born 1858 Mile End
1871
Mother Caroline is with these 3 children plus
Georgina Caroline born 1869 in Hornsey
Cannot find Carolines Husband Edward

Seems a big gap between Annie and Georgina ??
any ideas please ? thanks

both parents had died by 1881 and I cannot find Georgina in 1881

[kiterunner]

To save anyone else the time trying to find that 1861 census entry, this is the link:
1861 census (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=BRKRG9_790_794-0356&fn=Edward+J&ln=Cockson&st=d&ssrc=&pid=10960043)

(They are in Hornsey)
Edward Cockson Head Mar 28 Merchant's Clerk Middlesex Mile End
Caroline " Wife Mar 31 " Islington
Edward J " Son 5 Scholar " Mile End
Marion C " Daugh 4 " "
Annie L " Daugh 2 " Mile End

[ElizabethHerts]

They might have had children inbetween who died.

[vallee]

oh sorry should have put a link thanks Kite, Thanks Elizabeth but it seems odd to have three children close together then lose serveral before another one is born? but then anything is possible.

[kiterunner]

And that 1871 entry:
1871 census (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=MDXRG10_1335_1337-0489&fn=Caroline&ln=Cockson&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1443613)

80 Spenser Road, South Hornsey
Caroline Cockson Head Mar 41 Mile End Road
Edward John Cockson Son Un 15 Do
Marian C Cockson Dau Un 14 Do
Anne Louise Cockson Dau Un 13 Do
Georgiana Cockson Dau Un 2 South Hornsey

Now I'll see what I can find...

[kiterunner]

This is Georgiana's baptism:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=31280_197004-00185&fn=Georgiana+Caroline&ln=Cockson&st=d&ssrc=&pid=2604992

So Edward is (supposedly) her father - I was wondering whether Edward and Caroline had split up and Georgiana was Caroline's daughter by someone else.


2 Jul 1878 at Haggerston St Augustine, Hackney, Georgiana Caroline, born Nov 24 1869, parents Edward and Caroline Cockson, abode 2 Tedworth Rd, Church Rd, Tottenham, occupation Chandelier Drop Maker.

[kiterunner]

Caroline Cockson's death was registered Jul-Sep 1876 Edmonton district, age 48. Is Edward the Edward Cockson whose death was registered Jan-Mar 1878 Epsom district, age 46? If so then Georgiana's baptism is after both parents' deaths, so maybe she was in the workhouse and they had her baptised from there?

[vallee]

I hadn't thought of the workhouse Kite , funny because the other children dont seem to have been baptised? or if they were I cannot find them.
Thanks for that

[kiterunner]

The other children would be adults by the time their father died, so I don't suppose the workhouse would have had them baptised, if they even went into the workhouse that is.

I've been having a look in the Hackney poor law records on ancestry but no luck. I suppose it'll be easier to check for her in there when the name index becomes available.

[kiterunner]

Ooooh... looking on FamilySearch, there are baptisms of John Edward (or Edmond) Cockson (6 Apr 1856) and Marianne Cockson (19 Apr 1857) at Cambridge Road Independent, Bethnal Green, London. Parents Edward and Caroline.

[vallee]

thanks again Kite, was trying to find that 2 Tedworth Road Tottenham in either 1871 or 1881 cannot find that either oh well might leave it for now then Thanks again

ooh thanks Kite so they were baptised then thanks again

[kiterunner]

I suppose that Edward was legally Georgiana's father as he was married to Caroline when Georgiana was born, even if he wasn't her biological father. So I'm wondering whether they had split up by 1871 and Georgiana was Caroline's child by another man but the workhouse (or whoever) had Edward's name put on the baptism register. Do you have a copy of Georgiana's birth certificate, Val?

[kiterunner]

thanks again Kite, was trying to find that 2 Tedworth Road Tottenham in either 1871 or 1881 cannot find that either oh well might leave it for now then Thanks again



Oops, think it is supposed to be Tebworth Road, looking at the London A-Z.

[kiterunner]

Here is 2 Tebworth Road in 1881, hopefully some of the neighbours will still be there in 1871 to help us find it:
1881 census (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7572&path=Middlesex.Tottenham.ALL.6.28&sid=&gskw=Catherine+Buckley)

[vallee]

no dont have her birth cert Kite maybe it would be interesting to see whats on it ? think I shall send for it thanks very much for that address amendment too.
I did wonder as Edward died in Epsom ? maybe it was in the mental home? didnt they have one there at that time ?

[kiterunner]

I don't know, sorry, Val. I haven't found Tebworth Road on the 1871 census yet, will have to look later as it's time to go and eat now...

[vallee]

I cant either ,thanks very much for your help when the birth cert comes I'll tell you what is on it

[Merry]

Which is the birth registration?

[Phoenix]

You do have mental institutions at Epsom and I've found East Enders being farmed out there and dying there.

I wonder if Edward had syphylis (sp?) leading to middle children being still-born etc?

[kiterunner]

Which is the birth registration?

Good point, Merry. I can't see one.

[Jackie H]

There's a burial in August 1867 for Mary Matilda Cockson, 80 Spenser Road aged 1 1/2 years

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1559&iid=31280_198937-00221&fn=Mary+Matilda&ln=Cockson&st=r&ssrc=&pid=9612305

[Jackie H]

There's another burial, same church (Hornsey St Mary) for Eva Matilda Cookson, Spenser Rd aged 4 months in July 1864

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1559&iid=31547_213213-00296&fn=Eva+Matilda&ln=Cookson&st=r&ssrc=&pid=10291306

[Jackie H]

Both of those deaths are on FreeBMD with the surname Cockson, registered in Edmonton. There is another death of Alexander Albert Cockson aged 0 in 1873 in Edmonton - may be a coincidence

[HarrysMum]

Marianne has 19th April for both her birth and baptism, where John Edward has 6th April for birth and 30th June for baptism.

Can't find any others.

[vallee]

wow you have been busy thanks so much for those Burials Jackie and Libby that is the right address for the family, I cannot find a birth reg either for Georgina ? Merry and Kite, me thinks I shall send for Edwards Death Cert need to know what he died of and why in Epsom ? would he have been buried in Epsom too? I'm sure I heard somewhere that people that died there were buried locally ?

[Jackie H]

I've just struck lucky. Edward and Caroline are buried at Abney Park Cemetery, Stoke Newington.

http://www.devsys.co.uk/ap/Basic_Search.asp

That child, Albert Alexander is also there but I don't know if he's related. I went there once to try to find a headstone but failed. There's a map / plan to show you where the graves are

[vallee]

thats fantastic Jackie thanks so much have never looked on that before isn't it good ? wow

[vallee]

Just had another look at Georgina and on her Baptism it says Georgina Caroline yet on her marriage she says Gertrude Georgina ?

[Jackie H]

Its a good site. If you Google the cemetery there's quite a bit online.

You might find some more of your family there

[vallee]

I have quite few people die in that area so I will be very busy indeed thanks again.

[vallee]

if Im not being greedy can anybody find Edward in 1871 ???

[kiterunner]

Assuming you mean 1871, I spent quite a while looking for him yesterday with no luck, Val.

I see that on Georgina's marriage cert on ancestry, her name was written as Georgina Gertrude and crossed out and replaced with Gertrude Georgina. Father Edward Cockson deceased, chandelier maker.

[kiterunner]

Think I've found him in 1871 now, Val:

ancestry 1871 (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=MDXRG10_1333_1335-0417&fn=E&ln=C&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1413746)

and if it is him, you are right, he was in a lunatic asylum.
District County Lunatic Asylum, Friern Barnet, Middlesex
E C (male), Mar, age 39, Glass Chandelier Maker, lunatic. Birthplace is not filled in for anyone on the page, which is why I didn't find him last night, but it looks likely to be him, doesn't it?

[maggie_4_7]

Well done Kiterunner.

[vallee]

oh how sad thanks so much Kite yes he was a Chandelier Maker now shall have to send for his death cert, you are clever thanks so much

[Phoenix]

I've looked at Brookwood, rather than the Epsom asylum records, but you should be able to get the reason why he was declared a lunatic in the first place, description of his treatment etc once you know exactly where he was.

[ElizabethHerts]

http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=11805&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=

I don't know how helpful this link is in this particular case, but it gives some of the background.

I remember the asylum closing; it was an important institution in Hertfordshire.

[ElizabethHerts]

The National Archives also tells you that the records are at the London Metropolitan Archives:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=53&page=21

[vallee]

thanks Phoenix and Elizabeth shall have a look, I am wondering why he was in Friern Barnet then in Epsom? so must find the records.

[Phoenix]

It was probably what we'd call restructuring. I'm still trying to get my head round why some of the Croydon people got sent to Fisherton Anger in Wiltshire. Sue in Langley Vale probably knows better than I do.