View Full Version : John Ruff - help please
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 15:49
I'm helping a distant cousin with his mothers line.
He's seen this gravestone in Alwalton (was Huntingtonshire now Cambridgeshire)
John Ruff. Son of Joseph & Mary. Died April 11th 1854 aged 21yrs
I can't find a corresponding death reg for him or him and / or his parents in 1841 or 1851.
HELP!!!!
There's a Joseph and Mary in Somersham in 1851.
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 16:00
Yes I've seen that but it's quite a distance from Alwalton.
Hmmm.... see what you mean! Was he supposed to be John Wm or just John?
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 16:03
I've found that same family in 1841, searched for Selina, and the father is listed as James not Joseph.
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 16:05
Hmmm.... see what you mean! Was he supposed to be John Wm or just John?
Just John on the gravestone. I've seen the death reg for a John William in 1854 in Oundle, but that registration is March qtr and John died April 11th.
registered before he died???!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deaths Mar 1854
Ruff John William Oundle 3b 131
Snap, did they say whether the stone was easy to read? Did they take any photos :rolleyes::D
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 16:07
Can you amend the title to John not John William please Merry. I put that then realised about the wrong qtr.
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 16:07
Snap, did they say whether the stone was easy to read? Did they take any photos :rolleyes::D
I'll email and ask.
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:09
Can you amend the title to John not John William please Merry. I put that then realised about the wrong qtr.
I've edited it for you, Marg.
Thought I was going doo-lally then!
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 16:12
There is a death reg in 1852 June qtr in Peterborough (right district for Alwalton)
We can rule that out, if you are thinking the stone has been mis-read, as that is on the NBI and that chap is aged 57.
That
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 16:13
Have to go and do some veg for tea, back later.
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:15
Hmmm, FamilySearch has a baptism of a John Robert Ruff 11 May 1824 at Peterborough, parents Joseph and Mary. About 10 years too early!
There are stray mentions of Ruffs in Woodston, Stibbington & Stilton. John Ruff of Stilton was the son of King Ruff, though. Still looking....
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:19
There is this family in 1841 at Bridge Street, Peterborough, Northamptonshire:
Joseph Ruff 50 Publican No
Mary Do 50 Yes
Mary Ann Do 20 Yes
Sherrard Do 13 (female) Yes.
There is a single line between Mary Ann's name and Sherrard's so it looks likely Sherrard is a grand-daughter or niece.
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:21
Looking at the 1851 census for that family, still at Bridge Street, Peterborough (Bull & Dolphin Inn):
Mary Ruff Head Wid 61 Inn Keeper Yarwell North
John Do Son U 26 Do Son Peterborough Do
Sherrard Do Dau U 24 Do Assistant Do Do
Frederick Smith Grandson 2 Lound North
and some other people.
I wouldn't be surprised if some element of the stone has been mis-read.
What about if the year is wrong?
Deaths Jun 1852
Ruff John Peterborough 3b 127
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:24
The National Probate Calendar has an entry in 1859 for John Robert Ruff who died 12 Apr 1852 at Alwalton. I'll just type it out...
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:27
RUFF John Robert. Effects under £100.
23 April.
Letters of Administration (with the Will annexed) of the Personal estate and effects of John Robert Ruff formerly of Whittlesey in the County of Cambridge Grocer and late of Alwalton in the County of Huntingdon Bachelor deceased who died 12 April 1852 at Alwalton aforesaid were granted at Peterborough to Mary Ann Smith (wife of Edward Smith of Conington Fen in the said County of Huntingdon) the Daughter and Administratix of the Personal estate and effects of Mary Ruff Widow the Mother and Next of Kin and the sole Executrix named in the said Will she the said Mary Ann Smith having been first sworn.
There was a Smith grandchild on that 1851 census entry, will go back and put him / her in...
Looking at the 1851 census for that family, still at Bridge Street, Peterborough:
Mary Ruff Head Wid 61 Inn Keeper Yarwell North
John Do Son U 26 Do Son Peterborough Do
and some other people.
So if the stone said 27 (in 1852) ...........
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:31
There is a death reg in 1852 June qtr in Peterborough (right district for Alwalton)
We can rule that out, if you are thinking the stone has been mis-read, as that is on the NBI and that chap is aged 57.
Maybe the NBI entry is a mistranscription and it is supposed to be 27!
A Joseph Ruff is living in Fletton (less than four miles from A) in 1827
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:34
Another National Probate Calendar entry also from 1859:
1859
RUFF Mary.
Effects under £100.
16 February. Letters of Administration of the Personal estate and effects of Mary Ruff late of Alwalton in the County of Huntingdon Widow deceased who died 22 January 1859 at Alwalton aforesaid were granted at Peterborough to Mary Ann Smith (Wife of Edward Smith of Conington Fen in the said County) one of the Children of the said Deceased she having been first sworn.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/newspapers/view/BL/0000418/18480408/038/0002?&firstName=&lastName=ruff&county=Cambridgeshire%2C+England&keywords=&includeVariants=true&pageNumber=6
Not sure if the link works, but 1848, John Ruff grocer in Whittlesey & Joseph of the Bull & Dolphin, Peterborough.
kiterunner
05-01-13, 16:38
So Iit looks as though Mary moved from Peterborough to Alwalton soon after the 1851 census and both Mary and John died before the 1861 census came round.
*wonders what veg we will be having with our dinner?*
We can rule that out, if you are thinking the stone has been mis-read, as that is on the NBI and that chap is aged 57.
Maybe the NBI entry is a mistranscription and it is supposed to be 27!
I would think that's likely. (EDIT See post #46)
I don't have access to the NBI from here, but I'd be interested in the exact date of that burial. 11th/12th April for dod so far!
1841 Whittlesey
Joseph Ruff, 20, journeyman, not born in county.
A brother?
9 Jan 1848, Mr Smith of Holme to Mary Ann Ruff, eldest daughter of Joseph, innkeeper, at Peterborough.
The 1847 Post Office Directory has a Joseph Ruff in Fletton, pub called the Peacock. Fletton is just outside Peterborough.
The 1847 Post Office Directory has a Joseph Ruff in Fletton, pub called the Peacock. Fletton is just outside Peterborough.
That pub still exists.
That pub still exists.
*Puts on plimsolls to go for a Google streetview walk*
1815 Mr Jos Ruff of Spalding to Miss Mary Ireson of Stoke Doyle. (One of the children is William Ireson Ruff)
kiterunner
05-01-13, 17:24
There is a John Ruff on the 1841 census at Market Street, St John the Baptist, Peterborough, Northamptonshire, age 15, Grocer Apprentice born in county, in a household headed by Richard Wallis, grocer.
1815 Mr Jos Ruff of Spalding to Miss Mary Ireson of Stoke Doyle. (One of the children is William Ireson Ruff)
Joseph Ruff, bachelor, married Mary Ireson, spinster, 24 August 1815 in Stoke Doyle, Peterborough.
Northampton and Rutland Probate Index have a will for Joseph Ruff, 13 January 1849.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/newspapers/view/BL/0000418/18480408/038/0002?&firstName=&lastName=ruff&county=Cambridgeshire%2C+England&keywords=&includeVariants=true&pageNumber=6
Not sure if the link works, but 1848, John Ruff grocer in Whittlesey & Joseph of the Bull & Dolphin, Peterborough.
The pub is a listed building.
Listing Text
PETERBOROUGH
BRIDGE STREET
No 94
(Ball & Dolphin)
C16 core. Front timber work completely modernised with sawn fake half timbering possibly covering the original timbers in replica. 2 storeys. Repaired stone slate roof. 3 gables overhang on oriel cornice bases, with carved bargeboards, 2 lights each with leaded casements. 3 windows on lst floor, 2-light narrow leaded casements. On ground floor, paired narrow plain pilasters with 9 fielded double doors to centre and half glazed 2 fielded double doors to left. Early C19 shop front to right.
Nos 94 to 100 (even) form a group.
Source: English Heritage
1849 Kelly's Directory
Mrs Ruff, Bull and Dolphin
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 19:21
I wouldn't be surprised if some element of the stone has been mis-read.
My distant cousin says the stone is very clear
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 19:23
*wonders what veg we will be having with our dinner?*
I would think that's likely.
I don't have access to the NBI from here, but I'd be interested in the exact date of that burial. 11th/12th April for dod so far!
I might have that wrong.The date of burial for the one on the NBI in 1852 is 13th March
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 19:25
I'm going to suggest to my cousin that he joins this site to read for himself.
kiterunner
05-01-13, 19:26
I might have that wrong.The date of burial for the one on the NBI in 1852 is 13th March
Ah, there is a John Ruff death registration Jan-Mar 1852 St Ives district and then another one Apr-Jun 1852 Peterborough district.
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 19:30
I've sent him an email suggesting he joins our site. I don't know what info he already has on the Ruff family.
I might have that wrong.The date of burial for the one on the NBI in 1852 is 13th March
Just been and looked at the NBI and that burial is at Warboys rather than Alwalton, and should belong to the death reg at St Ives in Q1 1852.
So, I think we have a man who died the night of 11th-12th April 1852 and registered in Q2 1852 and either his grave stone was engraved with the wrong year or it's been misread. It would seem he was also probably 27 not 21.
The post 1812 burial records for Alwalton are still at the church. They say:
Searching registers of baptism or burials where the approximate date of baptism or burial is known for a period up to one hour £19 and £16 for each subsequent hour or part of an hour. This fee includes the provision of one copy of an entry therein. Each additional copy of an entry in a register of baptism or burials £19.
So, it's not going to be a cheap job to confirm the burial details (in particular the age of the person buried there).
Margaret in Burton
05-01-13, 22:44
The post 1812 burial records for Alwalton are still at the church. They say:
So, it's not going to be a cheap job to confirm the burial details (in particular the age of the person buried there).
cousin says he knows the vicar and church warden so maybe he'll get a freebie.
The Peterborough and District FHS seem to have information on Alwalton MIs:
List of archives held (http://www.peterborofhs.org.uk/archives.html)
Margaret in Burton
06-01-13, 16:12
Cousin is going to contact the Alwalton church warden and check the burial register. He'll get back to me after that. Thanks everyone for your help.
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