Harriet Crabtree

[Phoenix]

is here in 1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_61_64-0278&fn=Harriet&ln=Crabtree&st=d&ssrc=&pid=12455244

She is shown as unmarried, b Pimlico.

In 1881, she is shown as unmarried, aged 70 and sister-in-law of William Coleman.

I cannot find her on any earlier census. Nor her birth, nor her death. If her sister had been William's wife then she might be a King (or Mullender) by birth.

Can anyone find out anything about this woman?

[Asa]

I think in 1871 she's (on Ancestry) in Hammersmith aged 51 born Pimlice, Middlesex (sic)

[Phoenix]

That wild disparity in age doesn't help, but I think it's the same woman, Asa.

[kiterunner]

The people she is with in that 1871 census entry are a widow Mary Coleman age 71 born London, and Mary's son John H age 40 born Surrey Kennington. So presumably these people are related to William Coleman? Which suggests that Harriet might be related to the Colemans rather than to William's wife.

[Shona]

I thought the 1871 census looked more like Johnson, but the image quality is poor.

[kiterunner]

I think this is the same Mary in 1851 but Harriet isn't with them:
35 Queen St, Belgrave, St Geo Han Sq, Middlesex
Fredk Coleman Head 51 Painter Midx Holborn
Mary Ann " Wife 48 " Pimlico
Henry John " Son 19 " " Westr
Sarah " Dau 15 " "

(Except the son's birthplace is Westminster instead of Kennington)

[Merry]

I thought the 1871 census looked more like Johnson, but the image quality is poor.

So did I.

[Merry]

It bothers me that she is still alive!

[Phoenix]

I think it is Johnson, and the son is John Westby Johnson with this his baptism in Kennington: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=31280_194544-00213&fn=John+Westby&ln=Johnson&st=d&ssrc=&pid=2935970

[Phoenix]

It bothers me that she is still alive!

Lol!

I suppose she could have married in old age, but I would have expected that to happen in London.

[Phoenix]

Heck, she's in Chippenham in 1891, aged 81.

[Phoenix]

Ah, then she probably is the Harriet Crabtree who dies in Bath RD IN 1891 aged 81.

[ElizabethHerts]

Wow! Still a servant, aged 81.

[kiterunner]

No, she's retired on the 1891 census.

[kiterunner]

Looking for a connection with Kings or Mullenders, there is an Elizabeth Crabtree who marries a John Thomas King 29 Apr 1827 at St Bride Fleet Street, London, according to FamilySearch. Will move over to my other computer and see if I can find out more.

[kiterunner]

It is in the ancestry marriages and John Thomas King is a widower and Elizabeth Crabtree a widow.

[Merry]

It is in the ancestry marriages and John Thomas King is a widower and Elizabeth Crabtree a widow.

That looks hopeful!

[kiterunner]

Who was William Coleman's wife, Phoenix?

[Phoenix]

William Coleman married a Mary Ann. Unfortunately, I cannot find a marriage on Ancestry. From Freebmd, it looks as if the marriage took place in 1838 and the wife was either Mary Ann King or Mary Ann Mullender. It seems much more likely that Mary Ann was a King. She would only have been about 20 at marriage, so is unlikely to have been a widow herself.

I've been following the progress of William & Mary Ann's daughter Sarah. She was born 1852, was a servant in Lambeth in 1871, had a child in Reading probably later in the year, whizzed up to Newcastle Upon Tyne, had four more illegitimate children, then married Gilbert Cargey, (when all the children sheltered under that name), was widowed and then appears to have remarried in her seventies.

This is for a friend who I have advised to buy the appropriate certificates, so we will eventually know a few more surnames. But I am quite prepared for people to lurk under different names at different periods.