Help needed to sort out these Milloys, please

[Shona]

A headstone in Killean cemetery in Argyllshire reads as follows:

Erected
in memory of
John Milloy
late farmer at Achapharick
who died January 1795
age 44 years
by
Mary McNiven his spouse
and Edward and
Archibald their sons
in the year 1808

This has always been referred to as a 'family' stone. On the reverse of the stone are the names of my great-grandfather, also called John Milloy, his wife, Charlotte, and their daughters.

But are they 'family'? I need help, please, to establish whether John Milloy and Mary McNiven are my ancestors.

The parish records for births in Killean start in 1762, marriages begin in 1783 and there are no parish burial records.

I have the following births/baptisms for children of John Milloy and Mary McNiven:

1 Achibald: 'Archibald lawful son to John Milloy and Mary McNiven, Achapharick. Born January 1782.'
2 Barbra, 1785: 'Barbra lawful daughter to John Milloy and Mary McNiven in Auchpharick born August 7th.

Archibald born in 1782 and mentioned on the headstone died at the age of 80 in 1862 - farmer at Clachaig, widower of Ann McCaug. Father: John Milloy, farmer dec. Mother Margaret McNiven, dec.

However, I can't find any records for John Milloy and Mary McNiven nor can I find any for their son, Edward, who is mentioned on the headstone. Note: Edward can appear as Iver, Ivor or Niven. Is this 'my' Edward?

Edward Milloy - according to my family, the one mentioned on the headstone - married Mary McLean. This info is taken from marriage and death records. They had the following children: Mary, John, Barbra and Archibald, b c1819.

The Archibald above married Elizabeth McNair 30 Dec 1841. Their marriage states that Archibald's father was Edward Milloy, farmer (dec) and Mary McLean. Archibald died in 1874 at the age of 55. Parents named as Edward Milloy, farmer (dec) and Mary McLean (dec).

Archibald and Elizabeth had the following children:
Flora b 1842
Archibald b 1844
Edward b 1845
Mary b 1846
Elizabeth b 1849
Duncan b 1851
John b 1854
Barbra b 1856
Archibald b 1858

John, born in 1854, was my great-grandfather and mentioned on the reverse side of the headstone.

John and his siblings were born at Chleit/Clete in Killean parish. The cottage is about a mile away from Achapharick. The old 'ferm toun' of Achapharick is in ruins. John's father. Archibald, was a 'beadle' at the church at Chleit.

WARNING! There are a lot of Archibald Milloys born in this parish and the name and other first names repeat through the generations.

[kiterunner]

Surely if your g-grandfather and his family are listed on the back of the headstone it must belong to the same family.

[marquette]

It all seems logical to me.

The only piece of "proof" you seem to be missing a baptism for Edward. But as he mentioned on the headstone, you can be fairly sure that John and Mary (McNiven) did have a son Edward.

If John b 1854 was not Edwards grandson and the first John's great grandson, why would they have put his name on the reverse ?

Sometimes there are no records and you will never be able to prove it absolutely. I remember once reading, as an example of why baptism records may not exist, about a man who was in India (or maybe Australia) who wrote "home" to his brother in Scotland for a copy of his baptism record.

"ah, well " came back the reply the baptism registers were stored in the building next to the mill and they were all lost when the mill burned down.

The only other way you could be more positive, is to try to prove that Edward Milloy, who was Archibald (b1819) father, was NOT the son of John Milloy and Mary McNiven.

You would have to see if there is anyone else who could be Edwards parents, and try to elimiinate any other Edward Milloys from being Johns son and Archibalds father. If you are left with only one Edward Milloy who could not have any other father than John and Archibald who had no other father than Edward, then you could be fairly sure the headstone and family lore is correct.

Di

[Shona]

That's right, Di. The missing proof is whether the Edward on the stone is John Milloy's grandfather. I have managed to eliminate a good number of contenders, but not all.

Although naming traditions aren't absolute proof, they can assist. If I consider the lineage of this Milloy branch, I get the following pattern.

1 John and Mary:
Children: Archibald, Barbra, Edward

2 Edward and Mary (McLean):
Children: Mary, John, Barbra, Archibald

3 Archibald and Elizabeth (McNair - daughter of Duncan & Flora):
Children: Flora, Archibald, Edward, Mary, Elizabeth, Duncan, John, Barbra, Archibald

4 John and Charlotte:
Dorothy, Jane Elizabeth, Florence Mary, Charlotte, Barbara

Without documentary evidence to connect Edward on the stone to my Edward, I'll accept that the circumstantial evidence is very strong.

[Phoenix]

In England, where such a problem exists, wills, manorial, poor law etc records can help. Are there any scottish equivalents you can use?

[Shona]

Thanks, Pheonix. Yes, there are other records. The Duke of Argyll owned most of the land and conducted a census of residents in 1792. Milloys do appear on these records, but the ages of the people cloud the issue rather than help clear it up. John Milloy (died 1795) isn't on it. I wonder if, following John's death, the family are recorded as McNiven.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Have you found a burial or remarriage for Mary McNiven?