Cousin Emily - or is she ?

[Rick]

Living with my great grandparents, Thomas & Alexandra Marshall in 1901 at 24 Boundary Road, Hammersmith is a 22 year-old cook. She is single, a cousin and born in Hounslow, Middx. She is transcribed as Emily L Bert on Ancestry and Emily Le Bert on Findmypast.

I come back to this one every couple of years and get absolutely nowhere with it, so I'd be grateful for another set of eyes to run over the possibilities.

I can't find her on any other census or BMD. If she is genuinely a cousin then I can't work out where she fits in. I've researched both Thomas and Alexandra's lines fairly thoroughly and there's no surname like Bert or Le Bert on either so far as I know. I am missing one set of Alexandra's grandparents though, so it would be great to definitively rule Emily in or out.

Can anyone find anything more on Emily ?

Thanks in advance,

Rick.

[Phoenix]

There is an Emily L ROberts b Hounslow, though she is shown as aged 5 in 1881.

Her parents marriage appears to be George Roberts to Elizabeth James, parents Joseph Roberts & John James. George's birthplace and occupation wobble rather a lot.

[kiterunner]

There does seem to be a surname Le Bert as there are a few entries for it on each GRO index and on the censuses. And it does look like Le Bert on Emily's census entry. But I can't find a birth, marriage or death record for her. We might have to work on Alexandra's grandparents and see if we can find her that way?

[Phoenix]

Alexandra's parents appear to be Alexander McArthur (a soldier) and Mary Ann Holmes.

[kiterunner]

So on their marriage in 1877, Alexander McArthur is 27, bachelor, HM Coldstream Guards 2nd Battalion, father John McArthur, fireman (or is it foreman?) and Mary Anne Holmes is 25, father Charles Holmes, labourer. Witnesses Ellen O'Brien and Rd Js Elkington. RJE was also a witness on another marriage on the same page but a different date so probably not a relative.
Mary Anne's address is 1 Old North Street.

[kiterunner]

Then on Alexander's second marriage in 1890 (to Caroline Amelia Hughes) his father is John McArthur, baker.

On the 1891 census Alexander is age 42 and birthplace is Pancras. He is a cab driver by then.

[kiterunner]

So there is a likely family for Alexander on the 1861 census at 9 Hemlock Ct, St Clement Danes, Westminster, Jno Alex McArthur 44 journeyman baker born Scotland, wife Jane 42 born Scotland, Robert 20, Jane 18, Ellen 15, Alexr 12, Eliza 10, David(?) 8, Jas 4, Wm 1.

[kiterunner]

1881 census in Marylebone:
Alexander McArthur Head Mar 31 soldier Middlesex Marylebone
Mary Ann " Wife " 29 " wife " "
Alexandra " Daur 4 " daughter " "
Ada " " 10 days " " " "

(their surname has a space in it Mc Arthur so doesn't always come up if you search for McArthur)

[kiterunner]

So I'm guessing it is Mary Ann Holmes's family who you haven't been able to find, Rick.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, I can't find them either.

[Rick]

So I'm guessing it is Mary Ann Holmes's family who you haven't been able to find, Rick.

Yes that's right. Mary gave birth to Alexandra in Marylebone workhouse - think she might be down as Holms from memory. Alexander McArthur is the father but didn't marry Mary until later. He was serving with the Coldstream Guards and the workhouse record has the word "deserted" on it, although I'm not clear if this means he deserted Mary or the army ! It also says 2nd child for Mary.

I've never found her with her father Charles, so maybe this is where Emily fits in if she really is related.

Rick.

[Rick]

Also to confirm Alexander was born 1848 in Lambeth to John McArthur, a journeyman baker from Edinburgh and his wife Jane (nee Horn) from Leith. Alexander's sister Ellen is the witness to his marriage and she marrried Maurice O'Brien.

On the Marshall side (where I feel I have a fairly complete picture of potential cousins), Thomas's parents are:

Henry Marshall born Croydon - parents George Burden Marshall from Huntingdon and Frances nee Carpenter from Eastling, Kent

Clara Alice Harris born Paddington - parents Jose Maria Penalber from grenada, Spain and Agnes Eliza Harris from Hammersmith.

Rick.

[kiterunner]

This is the workhouse record page on ancestry (Northumberland Street Workhouse Admission and Discharge):

London Poor Law records (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/View.aspx?dbid=1557&path=Westminster.St+Marylebone.Admission+and+Disch arge.Northumberland+Street+Workhouse%2c+1875-1876.300)

And my transcription so far:


Mary Ann Holms, 24, 10 July 76
Alexandra Emily 14 days
Single, father of child Alexander Mc Arthur a Soldier deserted
2 Battn Cold Streams
5 East Cottages
L Church St
2 ???
5 Pickman(?) St
6 months
32 St Johns(?) ????
2 years

?? 2nd(?) child
E.O. tomorrow

I think it means that Alexander had deserted from the army. The addresses should all be places that Mary Ann had been living in and the length of time she was at each one but some of them are quite hard to decipher!

[kiterunner]

There is a possible for Mary Ann on the 1871 census (among others)
55 Clarendon Street, Pancras
Thomas Nixon Head M 29 Firewood Dealer Surrey Bermondsey
Mary A Do Wife M 38 Middlesex St Giles
Mary A Holmes StepDaur U 20 Gen Serv Dom Do St Pancras

(Thomas and his wife are indexed as Mixon on ancestry but I have put in a correction.)


In 1881 Thomas is a widower, if I'm looking at the right person, and he only has his sister Sarah with him (at 93 Gt College St, Pancras). Possible death for Mary Ann Nixon Jul-Sep 1877 Marylebone, age 50.

But I can't find a marriage between a Thomas Nixon and a Mary Ann Holmes. But Thomas Nixon married a Mary Ann Devereux 21 Oct 1866 at St Mary Magdalene Bermondsey. It looks to be the same Thomas Nixon as the one on the censuses since his occupation is grocer and his father is Robert, a hatter. Both are full age and Mary Ann is a spinster, residence Bermondsey, father John Devereux, a tanner. So I don't quite see how Thomas has a stepdaughter Mary A Holmes in 1871?

[Rick]

There is a possible for Mary Ann on the 1871 census (among others)
55 Clarendon Street, Pancras
Thomas Nixon Head M 29 Firewood Dealer Surrey Bermondsey
Mary A Do Wife M 38 Middlesex St Giles
Mary A Holmes StepDaur U 20 Gen Serv Dom Do St Pancras

(Thomas and his wife are indexed as Mixon on ancestry but I have put in a correction.)


In 1881 Thomas is a widower, if I'm looking at the right person, and he only has his sister Sarah with him (at 93 Gt College St, Pancras). Possible death for Mary Ann Nixon Jul-Sep 1877 Marylebone, age 50.

But I can't find a marriage between a Thomas Nixon and a Mary Ann Holmes. But Thomas Nixon married a Mary Ann Devereux 21 Oct 1866 at St Mary Magdalene Bermondsey. It looks to be the same Thomas Nixon as the one on the censuses since his occupation is grocer and his father is Robert, a hatter. Both are full age and Mary Ann is a spinster, residence Bermondsey, father John Devereux, a tanner. So I don't quite see how Thomas has a stepdaughter Mary A Holmes in 1871?

Hi Kite. Yes I'd looked at that before and wondered if it was them too. I'm off to have another look at it and at Phoenix's suggestion for Emily too.

Thanks,

Rick.

[kiterunner]

Maybe connected or maybe not, Elizabeth Sarah Holmes baptised 2 Feb 1875 at St Paul, Old Brentford, (Borough of Hounslow - but that's a modern-day thing, I guess), mother Mary Ann Holmes, abode St Pauls Old Brentford. Date of birth is given as 2 Feb 1872. I can't see a matching birth registration but of course she could have been born somewhere else completely.

[Rick]

This is the workhouse record page on ancestry (Northumberland Street Workhouse Admission and Discharge):

London Poor Law records (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/View.aspx?dbid=1557&path=Westminster.St+Marylebone.Admission+and+Disch arge.Northumberland+Street+Workhouse%2c+1875-1876.300)

And my transcription so far:


Mary Ann Holms, 24, 10 July 76
Alexandra Emily 14 days
Single, father of child Alexander Mc Arthur a Soldier deserted
2 Battn Cold Streams
5 East Cottages
L Church St
2 ???
5 Pickman(?) St
6 months
32 St Johns(?) ????
2 years

?? 2nd(?) child
E.O. tomorrow

I think it means that Alexander had deserted from the army. The addresses should all be places that Mary Ann had been living in and the length of time she was at each one but some of them are quite hard to decipher!

5 East Cottages (yes this is on Lisson Grove, Marylebone, just west of Regents Park)
L Church St
2 ??? (weeks)
5 Pickman(?) St (Could be Richmond Street)
6 months
32 St Johns(?) ???? (St Johns Wood Road - still west of Regents Park)
2 years

That does imply she's not lived in the Hounslow area in the 2-3 years leading up to 1876 though, so not sure about the Elizabeth Sarah baptism

[Rick]

There is an Emily L ROberts b Hounslow, though she is shown as aged 5 in 1881.

Her parents marriage appears to be George Roberts to Elizabeth James, parents Joseph Roberts & John James. George's birthplace and occupation wobble rather a lot.

Thanks Phoenix but I can't find any link between this couple and my lot !

Rick.

[kiterunner]

There is a Nance Emily Denyer in Ringmer, Lewes, Sussex, on the 1911 census, age 36 so a bit too old, married 5 years, 2 children, 1 living 1 dead, occupation cook (domestic), born Hounslow Middlesex. I'm trying to rule her out but I can't find her marriage to check her maiden name. (She isn't with her husband on the census.)

[Rick]

She is definitely Nancy - died in Bethnal Green - but I can't find a marriage either