Views about the father of these Blues, please

[Shona]

Rebecca Blue was born on the island of Colonsay. She never married, but had at least six (possibly eight - see note at end) illegitimate children, all before statutory registration. None of the births appear in the baptismal register for the island. These are the children that I've identified from census and other records:

- Mary McNeill, born c1822
- Ann McNeill, born c1827
- Catherine ??????, born c1833
- Neil McPhyden, born c1835
- Iver Blue, born c1838
- Duncan McPhyden, c1841

The only reference I have for Catherine is on the 1841 census - her surname is Blue. However, all the other children have the surname Blue on that census record.

This is the information I've gathered about the fathers.

1860 Marriage of Ann McNeill to Alexander Black
Father: Alexr McNeill.

1862 Death of Iver (English = Edward) Blue
Father: Duncan Blue, labourer (dec).

1864 Death of Mary McGlary
Father: .........McNeill, farmer.

1901 Death of Neil McFadyen
'Illegitimate fisherman...Duncan McFadyen reputed father, ploughman, dec.'

1907 Death of Duncan McFadyen
Father: Duncan McFadyen, ploughman (dec).

Are there three fathers - Mr McNeill, Mr Blue and Mr McFadyen? Or could it be Duncan Blue is actually Duncan McFadyen?

I can find Duncan McFadyen, ploughman, on the 1841 and 1851 census records - with his a 'wife' (no marriage record, though) and children. No sign of a Duncan Blue of the right age.

There was large-scale emigration to Canada (forced, 'encouraged' and voluntary) in the first half of the 19th century, so the fathers may have been long gone.

NOTE
1851 Census - Greenock
Alexander McNeill, head, 28, weaver, born Colonsay
Mary McNeill, wife, 30, born ??? Argyll
Rebecca McNeill, daughter, 7 months, born Greenock
Dugald Blue, visitor, 25, cooper, born Colonsay

Wondering whether Alexander is also one of Rebecca's children, given that his daughter is named Rebecca. Also what about Dugald Blue?

[kiterunner]

The trouble is, father's name on a death registration can be completely wrong, even more than on a marriage cert. Or it can be the name of a grandfather, uncle, stepfather, etc especially for an illegitimate child.

If Rebecca McNeill is Alexander's eldest daughter then she should be named after Mary's mother, if they followed the traditional naming pattern. But of course Alexander and Dugald could be Rebecca's children. I suppose you could look for their death registrations to see who their parents are named as but of course that means using up more credits on what could be a wild goose chase!

[kiterunner]

There is this household in 1841 (from FreeCEN):
Duncan McNeil 45 Mason
Sally McNeil 30
Kate 12, Effy 7, Petter 5, Margret 2,
Dougald Blue 15.

Their address is Baleromin Du.

There is some info about them on here:
http://www.linneberg.com/skye/colon2.html

I think it is saying they were on Colonsay?

[Shona]

Searching this lot isn't helped by the fact they were all illiterate and spoke Gaelic. Mistakes were made by ministers when recording relationships - father is athair and grandfather is sean-athair (translates as 'old father').

Colonsay families keep vanishing from British records due to emigration to Canada. Not sure about what is available in the Canadian records.

Even if Alexander McNeill and his daughter Rebecca McNeill aren't Rebecca Blue's son and grandchild, they will end up being linked in some way. Every family on the island seem to be related to every other family on the island.

Did notice that some public trees on Ancestry have Rebecca Blue's place of birth as Colonsay, Iceland! Should I tell?

[JBee]

I have an Agnes Blue who was married to a William Rankin in 1833 and Daniel Shaw in 1844. She's said to have been born in Kilcalman, Argyllshire. Her father was John Blue

With William in 1841

Source Citation: Parish: Rothesay; ED: 9; Page: 15; Line: 1040; Year: 1841.

With Daniel in 1851

Parish: Rothesay; ED: 7; Page: 3; Line: 12; Roll: CSSCT1851_116; Year: 1851.

Her children have Daniel's surname only found when I couldn't find some of the children's christenings - Daniel's children from first marriage were christened in Rothesay - OPR records are a bit sparse in Argyll & Bute at times.

So could it be that Rebecca was married at some point to one, two or even three husbands and kept her maiden name as some did in those days.

[Shona]

I have an Agnes Blue who was married to a William Rankin in 1833 and Daniel Shaw in 1844. She's said to have been born in Kilcalman, Argyllshire. Her father was John Blue.

Therefore, Agnes is probably part of the Blue family of North Kintyre, which includes the parish of Kilcalmonell. Some of the Kintyre Blues moved to Rothesay. In Kintyre, they were millers - and part of the illicit whisky business.

[JBee]

Probably as Daniel's father was a distiller at some point iirc.

Daniel's mother is a widow in 1841 and is using her maiden name.

[Annickburn]

1864 Death of Mary McGlary
Father: .........McNeill, farmer.


Any info on this for on this Mary? Is she the Mary McNeill that is with Ann McNeill in the household of Margaret Ross in 1841 Colonsay? Did she marry a 'McGlary' ? Where did she die in 1864? Did she have any Issue ?

Any info would be appreciated as my search of SCOTLANDS People have not returned anything.
Kind regards
Melanie

[Annickburn]

Ok so I got a few hits today, got Mary Marriage date and issue and grandchildren. Also got hubby widower next Marriage ...just not her (Mary) death registration.
Interesting ... The 'family' grows!

[Shona]

Hello Annickburn,

I've posted info about my McGlary branch in the 'Take 2 grandparents' section of the forum.

Mary McNeill married Thomas McGlary.

Here is some info on Mary McNeill
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16145&highlight=mcglary

Here is some info on Thomas
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16154&highlight=mcglary

After Mary died in 1864, Thomas married Rebecca Ward.

Mary and Thomas had the following children:

1 Thomas, 1852
2 Margaret, 1854
3 Margaret, 1858
4 John, 1860
5 Rebecca, 1865

John McGlary (b1860) married Janet/Jessie Steven(son).

One of their children was my great-grandfather, another John McGlary: b1887
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16004&highlight=mcglary

McGlary is a pest of a name to search. It's rare, but frequently mistranscribed.

[Annickburn]

Thanks Shona. I have updated my records accordingly.

I am not sure if it was a typo but Mary McNeill & Thomas 2nd child was actually Mary and not Margaret.

I have marriages and children for all their children except Thomas.
Mary McGlary m John Dowds in 1875 they had 8 children as far as I can see. I have Mary up to the 1901 census. Mary also had an illigitimate son William Kerr McGlary and his paternity was set by court. Don't know what happened to him after though and the father wasn't recorded.
Margaret m Andrew Ray in 1874 they had 6 children. Margaret died in 1888 Andrew remarried in 1895 and died in 1935
Rebecca married a John Bett and had 4 children. Rebecca died in 1895. One of her daughters Robina Thompson Bett married a John Grieg and emigrated to Quebec in 1914.
Then there is your John of course.

Quite a tree this is becoming..but sad as well with so many children dying young and the woman in the family also dying in their prime. A sign of the times I imagine :(

[Annickburn]

1907 Death of Duncan McFadyen
Father: Duncan McFadyen, ploughman (dec).

Are there three fathers - Mr McNeill, Mr Blue and Mr McFadyen? Or could it be Duncan Blue is actually Duncan McFadyen?

I can find Duncan McFadyen, ploughman, on the 1841 and 1851 census records - with his a 'wife' (no marriage record, though) and children. No sign of a Duncan Blue of the right age.



NOTE
1851 Census - Greenock
Alexander McNeill, head, 28, weaver, born Colonsay
Mary McNeill, wife, 30, born ??? Argyll
Rebecca McNeill, daughter, 7 months, born Greenock
Dugald Blue, visitor, 25, cooper, born Colonsay

Wondering whether Alexander is also one of Rebecca's children, given that his daughter is named Rebecca. Also what about Dugald Blue?

Hi again Shona

I wanted to comment on the above 2 points from your original message. I realise it was 2 years ago that you wrote it and you may well have the information you seek by now but I wanted to share what I have.

I would say that Rebecca Blue did have 3 separate relationships but we will never really know for sure.

What I can now confirm though is that Alexander McNeill that you mentioned above was the son of Rebecca Blue and Alexander McNeill.
This Alexander was married to Mary Black who was the sister of Ann McNeil's Husband Alexander Black.
Alexander was originally a Weaver and then about 1857 became a police officer.
The remarkable thing is was illiterate using his mark on some registrations eventually being able to write/sign his name.
Anyway Alexander married Mary Black on 21 Dec 1847 in Greenock.
They had the following issue:
-Mary 1848 - Bef 1851 bap Greenock 23 Dec 1848
-Rebecca McNeill was born about 1850 in Greenock, there is no baptism record. She married James Seath on the 30 Dec 1870. Rebecca Seath is a witness to the marriage of Duncan McFadyen and Margaret McLelland (as above) and also on another marriage but I can't remember off hand who! Rebecca appears to have emigrated to her daughter Janet Seath who married Hugh Adams. They first went to Pensylvania and then to Waterloo in Canada. It is unclear where Rebecca died. Rebecca & James had 7 children.
-John McNeill was born about Nov 1852 and died of whooping cough at 8 Cathcart Street, Greenock on 10 Apr 1855.
- Mary McNeill (2) was born on 12 Feb 1855 but died at 25 Regent Street 1859 aged 4
-Alexander Black McNeil was born 3 Nov 1857 at 43 Cathcart Street, Greenock. He married Christina Campbell at Ardgowan street, Greenock on 22 Nov 1889. They had 2 children on the 1901 census, Alexander and Peter B. Alexander Black McNeill was a ships Carpenter.

Alexander McNeill and Mary Black appear on the 1861 census at 2 Hill Street, Greenock with children Rebecca and Alexander B. And 2 lodgers James Muir b Ireland being one (see later)

Mary Black died at 25 Regent Street on Jan 1 1862 her husband Alexander was present and the informer. Her death Registration confirmed her parents as John Black and Mary McIntosh.

Alexander McNeill remarried on 14 March 1862 at 25 Regent Street, Greenock, to Margaret McCrae.
On this marriage registration he gives his father as Alexander McNeill Captain in the Army and Rebecca Blue both (Dec) his witnesses were James Muir (see above) and Mary McNeill (?)

Alexander McNeill died at 25 Regent Street, Greenock on 4 Jul 1864. He was aged 40 and died of consumption. James Muir (see above) was present.

It is unclear what became of Rebecca and Alexander B.
When Rebecca married in 1870 she was a domestic servant. Both she and James Seath recorded the same address as 62 Wellington Street, Greenock.

Alexander may well be the nephew residing with Neil McFadyen on Colonsay in 1871 but because his birth is given as Colonsay and not Greenock I am going to assume that this is not Alex B. but rather Alex McNeill son of Ann McNeill (Neil McFadyen sister, 1/2 sister of Alexander McNeill who's wife Mary Black (her sister n law) was also the sister of her husband Alexander Black).;( ;( ;(

[Shona]

Thanks for the info. Must dig out all my old research to compare notes - some of what you have posted sounds familiar. Massively busy at the mo', but when the project I'm working on settles down, I'll have a look at what additional info I have on the McGlary family.