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View Full Version : Who do you think you are - John Bishop - 6th December


Margaret in Burton
27-11-12, 12:27
This last episode of this series is finally being transmitted. Thursday 6th December BBC1 at 9pm.

Shona
27-11-12, 12:46
Hurray!!!!!!

maggie_4_7
27-11-12, 14:34
Good that is a Thursday isn't it?

Margaret in Burton
27-11-12, 20:14
Good that is a Thursday isn't it?

Yep

maggie_4_7
27-11-12, 20:15
Makes me wonder how the BBC feel about this program these days because thats the second one they shelved for something else. It probably isn't getting the viewing figures it used to - perhaps food for thought for them on the current format.

Margaret in Burton
05-12-12, 21:03
Just bumping this up as it's on tomorrow.

Shona
05-12-12, 22:32
Thanks - I've been reading a bit about him and it sounds as if it'll be an entertaining episode. More laughs than tears, I reckon.

Margaret in Burton
06-12-12, 22:11
Really really enjoyed that. Very interesting.

I did think at first what the hell, how can a man from London and a woman from Ireland get married in Canada and you assume it's the right one????

I suppose a lot of research must have gone on to confirm that is was the right one that wasn't transmitted.

kiterunner
06-12-12, 22:13
Episode Synopsis

John Bishop started out as a stand-up comedian during a temporary split from his wife Melanie.

His paternal grandfather was a warehouseman, his great-grandfather Ernest Charles Bishop was a head waiter at pubs and hotels in Liverpool, and his 2xg-grandfather Charles Bishop appears on the 1861 census as a lay vicar in Chichester, Sussex.

The 1861 census shows that Charles Bishop was born in Paddington, London, about 1825 and his wife Catherine Evett was born in Armagh, Ireland, at about the same time.
1861 census entry on ancestry (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=SSXRG9_623_626-0073&fn=Charles&ln=Bishop&st=d&ssrc=&pid=7782248)
The couple got married in Montreal in Canada in 1852. Charles was a Lance Sergeant in the army at the time.

John visited a military researcher who showed him quarterly paylists which show that Charles joined the army as a boy soldier at the age of 14, in 1838. In 1841 the regiment was in Bermuda and Charles joined the regimental band. By 1849 he was a Corporal. The regiment then went to Canada, where Charles married Catherine, the daughter of a soldier. The regiment returned to the UK and Charles and Catherine's first child was born. Soon after this, Charles bought himself out of the army, although he was only six years away from qualifying for a pension.

John visited Chichester Cathedral and met the organist, who showed him the Chapter Minutes for October 1853 which stated that Charles Bishop had been admitted as a probationer in the office of lay vicar at the cathedral. This means that he sang in the cathedral choir. John visited the Chichester Assembly Rooms, where Charles also performed. John saw local newspaper reports of concerts that Charles performed in there. Charles also compused music. The organist showed John the sheet music of one of Charles's compositions, the Watergate Polka, and played him some of it.

The Chapter Minutes show that Charles was given notice by Chichester Cathedral in 1864 but do not state the reason. Local newspapers show that this was because he had been appointed lay vicar at York Cathedral (or Minster).

John then looked at newspapers to find information about Charles's career in York but instead he found reports of Charles appearing in various theatres as one of the Sam Hague Minstrels. One of these reports referred to him as "late basso profundo of York Minster", confirming that it was the same person.

John met a theatre historian who showed him a book with information and pictures of the Sam Hague Minstrels, who were based in Liverpool for many years. He also saw some playbills, and information about their tour of America in 1882. There was also an obituary of Charles, who died in Liverpool at the age of 72.


John then researched another of his 2xg-grandfathers, Thomas Beaton. Thomas's daughter Elizabeth Beaton was the wife of Ernest Bishop. Elizabeth was born in Portsmouth in 1862 and her birth certificate shows that Thomas was a stoker in the Navy. John looked at Thomas's Navy record, which showed that he joined the Navy at the age of 17 and served in the Crimean War. Ships he served on included the Harpy and the Tiger. He was court martialled and served time in prison.

John visited Portsmouth to meet a Naval historian and look around some of the ships. They also visited the library to look for records of the court martial. This was a standard procedure because the ship HMS Tiger had been shipwrecked on the Crimean coast. The sailors were taken prisoner and then exchanged for Russian prisoners, and then formed a Naval Brigade to support the army at the siege of Sebastopol in 1854-5. When they returned to Portsmouth, the court martial took place on HMS Victory and the sailors were all found not guilty of responsibility for the shipwreck.

Records showed that Thomas later served on a merchant ship and that his prison term was served in Malta, perhaps for not reporting for duty. He later served on the royal yacht Victoria and Albert, in 1868.

Lynn the Forest Fan
06-12-12, 22:24
I really enjoyed it. :) My gg grandfather fought in the Crimea, although he was with the army and my gg uncle was a stoker.

kiterunner
06-12-12, 22:59
Here are the Bishops in 1881:
1881 census on ancestry (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LANRG11_3647_3651-0976&fn=Charles&ln=Bishop&st=d&ssrc=&pid=8956283)

and in 1891:
1891 census on ancestry (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=LANRG12_2995_2997-0132&fn=Charles&ln=Bishop&st=d&ssrc=&pid=26197542)

kiterunner
06-12-12, 23:25
Newspaper report on the inquest into Charles Bishop's death:

The Liverpool Mercury Monday August 28 1899.

SAD DEATH OF A WELL-KNOWN SINGER - Mr E Gibson on Saturday held an inquest at the Dale-street Court on the body of Charles Bishop, who for many years had been well known as a baritone vocalist. Since the death of his wife a few months ago, deceased had been in bad health, and on Thursday he became very ill, death ensuing on Friday. The medical evidence was that the cause of death was excessive vomiting set up by an internal rupture. "Death from natural causes" was the verdict.

kiterunner
06-12-12, 23:36
And the obituary:

The Liverpool Mercury Tuesday September 5 1899

Considerable regret has been expressed at the death of Mr Charles Bishop, so well and favourably known in military and musical circles. He had a most honourable career in the army, following in the steps of his father, the late Captain Peter Bishop, of the 40th Foot. Mr Bishop himself joined the First 20th Foot Regiment at Bermuda in 1838, eventually becoming attached to the band. All his service was abroad, and he received his discharge at Winchester in 1852. He then joined the Church, and in 1853 became the lay clerk at Chichester. From there he went to York Minster, and afterwards to Oxford New College. Subsequently he adopted the stage as a profession, and toured through the United States, eventually coming to Liverpool to settle down. Here he joined the choir of St Dunstan's Church, where he rendered service through a long series of years, and was highly esteemed by the clergy, choir, and congregation. A special service was held in the church on the day of the funeral, Revs E A St Duke, MA, and T P Roe, MA, officiating. Mr T Morris Jones played the "Dead March", and the choir sang suitable hymns. Members of the Liverpool Vocalists' Union, Everton Glee Club, and St Dunstan's Choir attended the cemetery, in addition to members of the deceased's family. The late Mr Bishop had four sons in the army, two serving and two retired. John Bishop is now brigade quartermaster-sergeant of the Royal Artillery at Secunderabad; David Bishop is also in the Royal Artillery at Kurrachee; Charles Bishop also served in the Royal Artillery. The last son, Maxwell Stuart Bishop, in 1878, in Liverpool, joined the 7th Hussars, and volunteered to the 14th Hussars for active service. He served in India, Ireland, East Indies, and went through the Boer Campaign in 1881. Thence he returned to India with his regiment, and took his discharge in 1886. On his return to Liverpool, however, he joined the 4th LVA, and still remains a well-respected and energetic member, his rank being that of farrier-sergeant.

Shona
07-12-12, 11:34
Charles's father, Capt Peter Bishop of the 40th Foot, was at Waterloo, according to this record on FMP.

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/GenericShowImageServlet?airfnbr=113751

kiterunner
07-12-12, 11:42
Here are the Beatons in 1871:
ancestry 1871 census (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=HAMRG10_1139_1141-0656&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Beatom&st=d&ssrc=&pid=10976951)

and Elizabeth in 1881:
ancestry 1881 census (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=HAMRG11_1166_1170-0831&fn=Elizath.R.&ln=Beaton&st=d&ssrc=&pid=6691183)
and her parents:
ancestry 1881 census (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=HAMRG11_1154_1158-0440&fn=Edith&ln=Beaton&st=d&ssrc=&pid=6618455)

kiterunner
07-12-12, 11:43
Oh, and there is some unseen footage:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/13932

Shona
07-12-12, 12:26
Oh, and there is some unseen footage:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/13932

Thanks.

Shona
07-12-12, 12:45
Charles and Catherine's marriage (Ancestry's Canadian collection) mentions that one of the witnesses was John Evitt, a sergeant - probably her father. As Catherine's father was in the Army, we can't assume that she was from an Irish family - it may be that her father was based there. The OH's Irish great-grandfather was in the Army and all but one of his children were born outside of Ireland.

I think Peter Bishop married Elizabeth Maxwell, who came from Scotland. One of Charles and Catherine's children has the name Maxwell.

Vicwinann
07-12-12, 12:46
I also really enjoyed it. Unlike some other people I like this format whereby just a few people's lives and doings are concentrated on, rather than a list of names going backwards with little detail.

kiterunner
07-12-12, 13:09
I think Peter Bishop married Elizabeth Maxwell, who came from Scotland. One of Charles and Catherine's children has the name Maxwell.



Sounds likely; Charles's mother Elizabeth is with them on one of the censuses and it says she was born in Scotland.

Shona
07-12-12, 14:00
I think these are all of Charles and Catherine's children:

Alexander Maxwell Bishop, born Winchester 13 July 1853, bapt 26 July 1853
Ernest Charles Bishop, born Winchester 14 July 1853, bapt 5 October 1853

John Evitt Bishop, baptised Chichester 15 October 1855

Edward Maxwell Bishop, baptised Chichester 18 July 1857

Maxwell Stuart Bishop, baptised Chichester 19 August 1860

Charles Bishop, born Chichester and baptised 8 July 1861; died 11 July 1861

(Arthur?) Wallace Bishop, born Chichester c1863

Kate Elizabeth Bishop, born in York and baptised 4 March 1867

Charles Bishop, born Oxford c1869

Laura Bishop, born Oxford c1870

David Bishop, born Birkenhead c1873

Possible twins, born 1875?

Eleanor Maud Bishop, born Liverpool 22 October 1877

Shona
07-12-12, 14:01
There are some public trees on Ancestry which say that Peter Bishop was born in Cornwall and Elizabeth Maxwell was born in Inverness-shire.

kiterunner
07-12-12, 14:08
Laura is Laura Rosetta Bishop on her birth registration (Apr-Jun 1870 Headington) and Laura Rose Etta Bishop on her marriage to Henry Hitchmough in 1899 at St Catherine's, Edge Hill, Liverpool.

Shona
07-12-12, 14:42
Another public tree on Ancestry has John Evitt marrying Catherine Murray in Armagh in 1828 with a daughter Catherine born 1836 in Armagh. The tree suggests that John died in New Zealand in 1864 and Catherine in 1870. Will see if I can confirm this.

Also, I saw a message on a board somewhere asking about the alleged death of Capt Peter Bishop in the Indian Mutiny.

Nell
08-12-12, 11:13
I enjoyed this. John Bishop has a warm personality and no pretensions and the episode included showbiz, the gruelling work of a stoker, a lost ship and subsequent court-martial, travel and music. It also showed that our ancestors could move around, both geographically and in their careers.

tinkerbe
09-12-12, 11:56
ohhhh maxwell and army connection with india in the mix time to look at ex husband (father of my kids ) tree to see if there is connection .

maggie_4_7
09-12-12, 12:02
I liked this one - Charlie did get about didn't he!

Interesting my cousin was at Northampton records office a few weeks back and she was talking to one of the record officers and he said ooh I think you need to cast your net a lot wider and she said would they have travelled that far and he said you'd be surprised how far people travelled in those days!

tinkerbe
09-12-12, 14:39
[QUOTE=Shona;21529

Also, I saw a message on a board somewhere asking about the alleged death of Capt Peter Bishop in the Indian Mutiny.[/QUOTE]

I have peter Maxwell who died in 1857 in cawnpore massacre

tinkerbe
09-12-12, 15:45
http://member.melbpc.org.au/~pandrews/miller.html

capt peter bishop mention on this page who took over from him in morten bay

and
the guy who took over from capt peter bishop
http://www.jenwilletts.com/captain_logans_journal.htm

Langley Vale Sue
09-12-12, 18:14
I've only just watched this episode and I really enjoyed it. I didn't think I would, and almost didn't record it, because John Bishop annoys me and I don't find him funny at all.

I was pleasantly surprised though and was hooked from start to finish. A very interesting and informative episode, unlike most of this series.

Shona
09-12-12, 18:42
http://member.melbpc.org.au/~pandrews/miller.html

capt peter bishop mention on this page who took over from him in morten bay

and
the guy who took over from capt peter bishop
http://www.jenwilletts.com/captain_logans_journal.htm
Think this is a diff Capt Peter Bishop.