Elizabeth Owston

[Asa]

I've found a marriage on Ancestry for an Elizabeth Owston, widow, daughter of Daniel Carr, builder to Richard Owston, excise officer 1842 St Mary Upper Street Islignton.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_197199-00355&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Owston&st=d&ssrc=&pid=5531065

I'm trying to prove or disprove that Elizabeth who was baptised in 1816 St Giles in the Fields was the daughter of Daniel Carr carpenter of Pancras

I can't find her first marriage but I think I've found her in 1841 in Pentonville as Eliza Owston 27 with daughter Elizabeth 3. Piece 662 Folio: 43; Page: 38

In 1851 she (aged 36 born London) and Richard are in Aldersgate - Piece: 1525; Folio: 466; Page: 8, with children including Eliza (from the 1841) and a 15 year old William who was born in Montreal, who may be Richard's son and not Elizabeth's (though Richard is a bachelor when he marries Elizabeth). Baptisms of children show them in the same place up until 1856

I can't find Elizabeth again though it looks as though she died Mar qtr 1886 Islington aged 73?

Can anyone see her in 1861/71/81?

[Merry]

I tried looking for the elder dau, Elizabeth in 1861, as this may be her death:

Deaths Sep 1861
Owston Elizabeth Jane W London 1c 40

(birth reg Q4 1837)

but I couldn't see her. I don't remember how much if West London is missing from the 1861.

Richard seems to have died in 1870 (from memory!), so perhaps trickier to find Elizabeth senr without him. Have you tried looking for her with initials only?

[Asa]

Thanks Merry. Yes, Richard died in 1870 in London City.

I'll have a look for Elizabeth with initials.

I wondered about that for the younger Elizabeth but there's also banns in Islington 1874 for Elizabeth Owston spinster although the marriage doesn't appear to have taken place.

[Merry]

I wonder what happened to the first Mr Owston? As Eliz Jane was registered in Q4 1837 (if that is the right reg, but it seems very possible), unless he died in the first part of Elizabeth's pregnancy there should be a death reg, but there isn't one. So, for him, no marriage, no death and no baptism for his child. :(

[Asa]

I'm not sure if there are any clues to that in William Owston bc1836 Montreal, who's listed as son to Richard in 1851. He also names Richard as his father on his marriage and is with Richard and presumably Richard's parents in 1841 but I did wonder if he was Elizabeth's son by her first husband if Richard and the first Mr O were brothers?

[Merry]

That seems reasonable. Perhaps the first Mr O died in Canada and Eliz came home pregnant (with EJ) or perhaps she came home and was comforted by her Bro-in-law who she later married?!

[Asa]

Ah hang on - there's a baptism on FMP for Elizabeth Jane Ouston 11 Feb 1838 St John Wapping daughter of Richard (master mariner) and Elizabeth. Helpful.

[Merry]

lol So now we don't know when the first Mr O died.

[Asa]

Nope:-) Richard's burial is on Deceasedonline so I think I'll have a look at that.

[Merry]

The children with them in 1851 are tricky to work out later. Fanny died before the next census, I thought I had a death for James in 1899, but now I'm not sure if it's him.

Have you found Wm, Montreal anywhere else?

[Asa]

Richard is of Elmore Street Islington when he dies but I've been through the street in 1871 and I can't find Elizabeth there.

William is apparently William Porter Owston. He marries in 1858 St Giles Cripplegate (witness Elizabeth Owston) and is with his wife and no children in 1861/71/81 in Shoreditch. Born Canada or Quebec. Marries secondly in 1887 in Stepney.

For the other children - sometimes spelled Oweston - I have -
Anne bapt 1843 St Mary Upper Street Islington bur 1845 Bunhill Fields
James bc1845 London
Anne b 1848 bapt 1850 St Botolph Aldersgate
Fanny bapt 1850 St Botolph Aldersgate bur 1857 West Hackney
Richard bapt 1853 St Botolph Aldersgate
Charles Edward b 1854 bapt 1856 St Botolph Aldersgate.

[Merry]

William doesn't have his mother at home in 1861/71/81

I wonder why his middle name is Porter?

[Asa]

Charles marries 15 Dec 1878 St Mary Upper Street Islington and is of Rotherfield Street

[Merry]

James bc1845 London

There's a Porter James Owston reg in Islington in 1845.

[Asa]

Thank you - there's a handful of Porter Owstons on Family Search - mostly in the North (Richard was born Derbyshire)

[kiterunner]

Ancestry has a Richard Potter Owston in the Masters and Mates Certificates database, born Scarborough 9 Dec 1810.

[kiterunner]

But that one died in 1879. Wonder if he is some relative, though.

[Merry]

I realise this is no help on the Carr front, but who are these two?


Annie Jane Owston bap 24 Oct 1877 parents William Porter Owston and Jane Owston at Walworth St John the Evangelist Southwark

William George Owston bap 10 Mar 1878 William Porter Owston, Jane Owston
Walworth St John the Evangelist Southwark

I thought his first wife was Mary and they were together with no children up to 1881? Another }Wm, or a double life??!

[Asa]

Thanks Kate - has to be some connection. That Richard would be the master mariner who fathered Elizabeth Jane?

James Owston is a photographer who marries in Kilburn in 1870. It's a bit by the by but William seems to be having children by another woman in the 1870s.

[Merry]

But that one died in 1879. Wonder if he is some relative, though.

Are you refering to Porter James, Kate? If he died in 1879 he could still be the James who is on the 1851 census! Maybe I'm missing the point :o:o:o

[Asa]

Snap Merry! I think Mary dies in 1885 but the waiter sort of clinches that....

[kiterunner]

I'm trying to prove or disprove that Elizabeth who was baptised in 1816 St Giles in the Fields was the daughter of Daniel Carr carpenter of Pancras


I think I misunderstood this the first time I read it - do you mean that you are trying to prove / disprove that Elizabeth Owston is the Elizabeth Carr who was baptised in 1816, Asa?

Are you refering to Porter James, Kate? If he died in 1879 he could still be the James who is on the 1851 census! Maybe I'm missing the point :o:o:o

Sorry, no I meant that Richard Potter Owston who I mentioned in my previous post.

[Asa]

Yes - I wrote that badly. I was really after finding her on another census to give more weight to her age and pob.

I can't find her youngest son Charles on any census which is probably relevant. He dies 1888 Edmonton

[Merry]

Thanks Kate!

I see Wm George is a "relative" in 1881, so that may be a challenge if these turn out to be your relatives, Asa!

Have you tried looking with surnames beginning with A rather than O on the missing censuses? (Or H?)

[Asa]

I think I've tried C-ston and A-ston and H-ston but probably not for all of them on every census! I've got to go out now but I'll start again later - I hoep these are mine because I like Richard being Turnkey at Newgate:-) But there are so many unknowns....however I can't see another candidate for Elizabeth other than the 1816 baptism so I think it looks likely.

Thank you both for your help:-)

[Merry]

Another problem person is Sarah Owston aged 8 in 1841. I would have thought she might be the sister of Wm (Canada), but I can't see she existed other than the 1841 census entry. If she is another child for your Elizabeth then she would have been quite a young mum.

I can only see the one baptism for a child of Wm and Hannah (Richard) in Derbyshire.

[Asa]

Where's the baptism for Richard please, Merry?

It doesn't make a great deal of difference but Elizabeth was baptised along with a sister Margaretta after a gap of 5 years so she may have been a couple of years older.

[Merry]

This was the bap I thought was likely:


name: Richard Owstin
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 13 Jun 1819
baptism/christening place: LONG EATON,DERBY,ENGLAND
father's name: William Owstin
mother's name: Hannah
indexing project (batch) number: C05548-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 498098

[Asa]

Thanks Merry - got to be him

[jowston]

Greetings. I've stumbled on this forum by accident today and can answer probably many of your questions.

There is great difficulty in making sense out of the Owstons of London in this period. This is due to several things.

There are two divergent lines of Owstons in London and although related, the connection goes back to probably the 1400s. There is no paper trail, but DNA evidence proves a relationship. These lines often share the same forenames.

Another difficulty is that Eliza Carr was married to two Richard Owstons. The second was the nephew of her first husband. She is only referenced as Elizabeth in the second marriage records - elsewhere she is consistently referenced as "Eliza" which may or may not be a cognomen.

A third problem with the Porter Owston group is that there were two William Porter Owstons who were first cousins, once removed. They are often confused; however, the younger one never married and had no issue. In fact, he was never a resident of London, but some researchers have placed him there in order to justify the fourth problem.

The fourth problem is that two of the Porter Owston family - a William Owston and his nephew, the older William Porter Owston - had bigamous relationships that produced children.

Eliza Carr, daughter of Daniel Carr of Middlesex, married Richard Owston as his second wife on 20 SEP 1834 in Montreal. They had two children: William Porter Owston and Elizabeth Owston. Richard (the first husband) died in November 6, 1838.

The name Porter entered the line with the wife of William Owston (1718-1791) who was named Jane Porter. They had a son named Porter Owston (1763-1820) and several of his descendants have Porter as a first or middle name and included both William Porter Owstons, Samuel Porter Owston, Henry Porter Owston, and Porter James Owston.

I think that answers the majority of the questions regarding this line. Feel free to let me know if I missed something.

Jim Owston

[Asa]

Hello Jim

Thank you very much - that's both interesting and helpful - and lucky that you found my post! I still have some work to do on establishing whether Eliza's father Daniel Carr is the Daniel Carr I'm descended from but your information is a great help in sorting her Owston family out.

Thank you

[Asa]

I meant to add to this thread that I found Elizabeth in 1871 transcribed as Duston on Ancestry. Birthplace Middlesex...

[jowston]

Glad to be of help. Good luck in finding a way to prove both Daniel Carrs are one in the same.

Another poster referenced Richard Potter Owston - this was a person in another Owston line that was very distantly related to the Porter Owston family.

Jim