WILLIAM KEITH 1x grandparent (OH)

[Shona]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as:
William Keith

Date and place of birth:
October 1874, Shankhill, Belfast
Date assumed from military records. Birth record not found.

Names of parents:
Possibly Charles Edward Keith and Margaret Gribben/Gribbin
Name of parents taken from records relating to William's older brother, John. However, I have not found a birth record for William and no record of a marriage between Charles Edward Keith and Margaret Gribben.

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any - and any divorces:
Married Matilda Hughes on 18 May 1904 at St John's Church of Ireland, Laganbank, Belfast. Witnesses: J Cotter and Anne Rankin

William was Protestant - Matilda was a Catholic.

Occupation(s) - if any:
1) Labourer
2) Private in the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers
3) Alleged gold prospector in either South Africa or what was then Rhodesia. Lots of family stories, but no evidence to back this up:

Family stories say that he went prospecting for gold at some point after he left the army. He was supposed to have sent all the money made back to his wife in Belfast, who spent it all, when he thought she was saving it. Another branch of the family say that, because he was in a remote area, he paid runners to take letters and money to the nearest town. However, they stole it. His wife thought he has died or left him.

4) Labourer

Military service - if any:
On 11 April 1896, enlisted with the RIF, aged 22 years and 6 months. Had been a member of a militia force - 3rd RIF. Served in India and Pakistan. Private Keith received the India Medal with Punjab Frontier 1897-1899 clasp. Batallion posted to South Africa (Boer War) arriving on 7 February 1902. In June 1903, William Keith ‘bought himself out’ of the Army and returned to Belfast. Private Keith received the Queen’s South Africa Medal with three clasps – Orange Free State, Transvaal and South Africa 1902.

Addresses where they lived - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on, if applicable.

1888 9 Leeds Street, Belfast
1896 12 Nelson Street, Belfast
1896-1902 Military service in India, Pakistan and South Africa
1904-1910 22 Tyrone Street, Belfast

1911 census 22 Tyrone Street, Belfast
William Keith, 36, jobber builder’s yard, Church of Ireland, read and write
Matilda Keith, 26, Roman Catholic, read and write
Victoria Keith, 28, reller in mill, Roman Catholic, read and write

1913 22 Tyrone Street, Belfast
1918 York Road, Belfast

Date, place and cause of death:
Died at the age of 52 on 4 May 1927 at 157 North Queen Street, Belfast, from gastric carcinoma (6 months) and cardiac disease (6 months). Registered by M Keith, widow.

Date and place of burial / cremation:
Buried in Milltown Catholic cemetery in Belfast

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable:
Not found

Memorial inscription - if any:
There is one.

[kiterunner]

What does it say for his father's name and occupation on his marriage certificate, Shona? And what is Charles Edward's occupation on John Edward's birth registration and baptism? And what address were they living at when John Edward was born?

[Shona]

On the transcript of William Keith and Matilda Hughes marriage, it states that his father was named William and was a labourer.

However, his older brother John Edward Keith was born on 29 July 1868 (baptised 18 August), at 43 Carrick Hill, Belfast. Father: Charles Edward Keith, book keeper. Mother: Margaret Gribben.

When John enlisted, he named his mother 'Margaret' as his next of kin, as well as his brother William and sister Victoria.

[Victoria Louisa Keith was born in the first quarter of 1883]

When William enlisted he named his brother as next of kin. On the military record, this is later crossed out and 'dec' added

John Edward Keith coverted to Catholism at the age of 30 in 1897. His baptismal on conversion states his father was named Charles Edward Keith and mother Margaret Gribbin. He married the next day. On that record, it states that both fathers are dead.

I calculate that Margaret Gribbin must have died between 1888 and 1896, but once more I have found no record.

I have managed to identify Margaret on the Griffith's valuation.

[kiterunner]

The 1870 Belfast street directory lists a Hugh Casey, hay and straw dealer, at 43 Carrick Hill. Not much help, sorry.

[kiterunner]

Do you know who Victoria's father was, Shona?

[kiterunner]

I calculate that Margaret Gribbin must have died between 1888 and 1896, but once more I have found no record.


Have you ruled out the Margaret Keith whose death was registered Apr-Jun 1893 Belfast, age 42?

[Shona]

I've seen the reference to Hugh Casey. Oh, how I have poured over those street directories and old maps!

The Griffiths Valuation of Ireland from 1862 lists Margaret Gribben living at Shield’s Entry, Shankill. The Belfast Street Directory of 1863 lists her living at ‘14 Shield’s Entry, off Carrick Hill’ and the 1865 directory records her at 14 Shield’s Court.

In 1861, ‘Sheal’s Entry’ contained ‘five small houses’ and a directory from 1843 records that Sheal’s Entry was at 43 Carrick Hill – the address given in John Edward Keith’s birth record.

There was a pub at 41 Carrick Hill.

I have newspaper references to a Margaret Gribben being involved in various brawls in this area. At the time, this part of Belfast is described as 'comprising mainly of two-up, two-down terraces. It was poverty-stricken and characterised by poor housing, over-crowding, high crime, domestic quarrels and violence, alcoholism and drunkenness, illegitimacy and infanticide. Brothels and bars populated the area.'

[kiterunner]

Oh, she would be too old to be the Margaret Keith who died in 1893 then, unless the age at death is wrong.

[Shona]

Have you ruled out the Margaret Keith whose death was registered Apr-Jun 1893 Belfast, age 42?
I did and I'm trying to recall why - possibly because she wasn't referred to as deceased when John Edward Keith married.

[Shona]

I did and I'm trying to recall why - possibly because she wasn't referred to as deceased when John Edward Keith married....and the Griffith's and street directory records.

[Shona]

From newspaper records:

In March 1882, a woman named Margaret Gribben was assaulted by Michael Molloy as they drank in a public house in Chapel Lane. She was subsequently attacked by Molloy’s sister, who hit her with a poker.

June 1889, Margaret Gribben, was charged with being drunk and disorderly and assaulting Henry Dinsmore and Frank McKeown. She was fined 20 shillings plus costs and ordered to serve three weeks in jail.

November 1881, William Roche was charged with violently assaulting Margaret Rocks in Arthur Gribben’s Public house in Carrick Hill.

[Shona]

Do you know who Victoria's father was, Shona?

Sorry, no. She was born Victoria Louisa Keith at 12 Nelson Street, Belfast, either late 1882 or early 1883. She converted to Catholicism on 18 October 1896, St Patrick's, Belfast. Mother's name is given as Margaret Keith. There is nothing entered under father.