View Full Version : Mary FFFFFM
Lynn the Forest Fan
19-10-12, 14:09
Name - Mary Stephenson
Date and place of birth - c1791 Caistor Lincolnshire
Names of parents - N/K
Date and place of baptism - N/K
Details of each of his or her marriages - James Smith 29/6/1819 Caistor
Occupation(s) - N/A
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) -
1841 - Marley's Yard, Louth Lincolnshire, widow
Date, place and cause of death - N/K
Date and place of burial. - N/K
Details of will / administration of their estate - N/K
Memorial inscription - N/K
Children
Ann c1820 Mary c1821, John Free c1822, Betsey c1824 Diana & Elizabeth 1827, Rebecca 1833
Oooh - I've seen Free as a middle name in some of my Lincolnshire research.
I think the reason I've come across John Free Smith was when I was researching the family histories of the men named on the Barton War Memorial.
I think the reason I've come across John Free Smith was when I was researching the family histories of the men named on the Barton War Memorial.
The name I have in my notes is Smith Free Cammack. I wonder if this is a co-incidence or there is a link...
Here are my notes:
GEORGE FREDERICK CAMMACK
Private S/4/126196, Army Service Corps (Supply)
Died: 23 October 1915
Born in Barton-upon-Humber
Son of the late George William and Louisa Cammack, Barton-upon-Humber
Resident of York
Enlisted in York
Buried: Barton-upon-Humber
Commemorated:
Barton War Memorial – G.F. Cammack (one of the three names added later)
Trinity Methodist Church – George F. Cammack
Background
George Frederick Cammack was born in Barton in the summer of 1897 – son of George W Cammack from Nettleton and his wife Louisa (nee Hollingsworth) from Saxby. In the same year, the couple lost a son – Walter Henry Cammack.
In 1901, George (45) and Louisa (43) lived on Westfield Road with eight of their children (they had at least 12): Rose Alice (24), Emily Jane (20), Ethel Maud (12), Richard A (10), Sarah L (eight), Nora A (five), George F (three) and Elsie May (one). George Cammack senior worked as a stoker at the gas house. He had been a brickyard labourer some years previously. He died in 1907.
The family continued to live in Westfield Road following George Cammack’s death. In 1911, Louisa, 53, was a grocer. Daughters, Ethel, 22, and Lillie, 20, were assisting in the business. Arthur, 20, worked as an assurance agent. Nora, 15, was a domestic servant, while 13-year-old Fred was a butcher’s apprentice. Two younger children – Elsie, 11, and Albert, nine, were at school.
George’s mother died in 1914. His sister Nora also died in 1914.
George was 19 years and six months old when he enlisted on 23 August 1915. On his papers, he stated that he was a butcher by trade and named his sister, Mary Louisa Cammack, 13 South Parade, Blossom Street, York, as his next of kin. This was also where George lived. He was 5ft 4¾ in tall.
He never saw any action, though, because he died at Reading War Hospital on 23 October 1915, having served just 62 days. The cause of death was given as diabetes, although local news reports suggest otherwise.
On 30 October 1915, the Lincolnshire Star reported:
DEATH. – Information was received on
Saturday, of the death of Pte. F. Cam-
mack, of the A.S.C., in hospital at Read-
ing. Death is stated to be the result of
inoculation. He was only enlisted nine
weeks. The remains were brought home
for internment.
After the war, on 17 May 1919, George Cammack’s sister and next of kin – Mrs Mary Louisa Hall – provided the military with details of her deceased brother’s family:
Mother and father: Deceased
Brothers:
J G W Cammack, Westfield Road, aged 36
R A Cammack, Rotherham, aged 28
A E Cammack, Westfield Road, aged 17
Sisters:
Mrs Mary Hall, 13 South Parade, Blossom Street, York, aged 15 years
Mrs R A Smallwood, 54 Curzon Terrace, York, 43 years
Mrs F C Taylor, Westfield Road, aged 41
Mrs Lingard, Canada, 39 years
Mrs E M Gray, 64 Bootham, York, aged 30
Miss S L Cammack, 13 South Parade, Blossom Street, York, aged 26
Miss E M Cammack, Westfield Road, aged 19
In 1920, letters were sent to the Cammack home in Westfield Road regarding the disposal of George’s memorial scroll.
Additional info:
The Revd Charles Moor records in his log books: ‘Cammack, Pasture Rd, chemical works & some land. Green house. 1 boy fr workhouse lived there whom they got out.’
Joseph Cammack and his wife Charlotte appear in Barton’s census records.
Like George’s father, he came from Nettleton, so likely to be related. The couple had several children – one named Smith Free Cammack, born in 1880, also served in the war. Kelly’s 1919 Directory records Joseph Cammack, market gardener, living in Pasture Road. There is also an entry for Mrs George Cammack, market gardener, Westfield, Road.
George’s brother, Richard Arthur Cammack and his wife Beatrice had a son named Bernard, who was born in Rotherham in 1919. The family moved back to Barton when he was six weeks old. Richard worked in the Rotherham steel works in the Second World War. Bernard was a sergeant in the RAF in the Second World War.
John Free Smith did end up living in Barton-upon-Humber. In 1871, he was living with his large family in Tetney, working as a brick and tile maker. He was at Blyth's Brickyard in 1881 and was a foreman at Barley's Brickyard in 1891. From the birth places of his children, he moved from Louth to Enbleton to Nettleton to Tetney Lock before ending up in Barton. The trade of brickmaking tends to run in families, so I wonder if his father James was a brickmaker in Louth. Marley's Yard hints that this may be so.
From FreeReg - John Smith, baptised 11 October 1822. Parents James and Mary Smith. Father's occupation: Bricklayer.
John Free Smith died Glandford reg district A/M/J 1898. Poss order the death cert in the hope that whoever registered his death knew his mother's maiden name?
Lynn the Forest Fan
19-10-12, 19:35
Wow, Shona, you have been busy! John Free Smith was my ggg grandfather & I have him from the baptism you found until his death. The children I listed were from the Louth parish records, there were 2 Mary Smiths havng children baptised in Louth at that time but only one in the brick trade. As you say brickmaking ran in the family, with my gg, g grandfather and grandfather all being involved. Sadly his death certificate gives no clue to his mother's maiden name & he married in Scotland before official registration began there, so that is no help either. I have possibly traced one of his sisters in 1851 but that is all.
Ah yes - Agnes didn't seem like a Lincolnshire name!
The wonderfully named Smith Free Cammack must be linked to your family as he had a sister named Agnes. Smith Free and Agnes's father was Joseph Cammack born in Nettleton.
Still hunting for Mary...
Lynn the Forest Fan
19-10-12, 20:45
I can't find any connection, apart from Joseph being from Nettleton and working in the brickworks in Barton, very strange!
...and it gets odder. Smith Free Cammack's sister Agnes's middle name was Smith.
Smith Free Cammack's full name was Smith Free Dous Cammack. A resident of 39 Finkle Lane, Barton, he died in Grimsby Hospital on 24 March 1963 and left an estate worth £3.800.
Still searching for the elusive Mary and she is proving to be v elusive indeed. Also trace James and Mary's other children to see if that leads somewhere.
Lynn the Forest Fan
20-10-12, 11:17
It really is strange. You would think there had to be some connection, but I certainly can't see one!
Smiths are notoriously hard to find, particularly with a name like Mary! I have tried to find a marriage for Mary & James, or a death for either of them but no joy :(
OK - here's a summary. Not sure if it gets us much further, but it may help others if they want to have a go trying to find Mary.
Given the family use surnames as first names, I have tried to see if there is anyone named Mary Free marrying James Smith, but no luck...yet.
Identified children:
Mary, bapt 1 Sept 1821, Louth St James. Parents: James Smith, tilemaker, and Mary.
John Free, bapt 11 Oct, 1822, Louth St James: Parents James Smith, brickmaker, and Mary.
Betsey, bapt 14 May 1824, Louth St James: Parents James Smith, brickmaker, and Mary.
Diana & Elizabeth, 21 Feb 1827, Louth St James: Parents James Smith, tilemaker, and Mary.
Rebecca, born 1833 (from 1841 census - if this is a daughter and not another rellie).
I also found on FreeReg, Edward Smith, bapt 26 Aug 1826 in Louth, to James Smith, bricklayer, and Mary. Might be the same family.
There is an unsourced Public Tree on Ancestry saying that an Elizabeth/Betsy Smith, born 19 February 1827 married Thomas Longstaff. The couple has a son named Free Longstaff. However, the place of birth they have listed for Elizabeth/Betsy is New Holland, Lincs, not Louth. She emigrated to New Zealand and died in 1909.
However, haven't managed to confirm what happened to any of Mary and James's children, apart from John Free Smith.
1841 Louth - Marley's Yard, Louth
Mary Smith, 50, widow, born Lincs
Free Smith, 15, brickmaker, born Lincs
Elizabeth Smith, 14, born Lincs
Rebecca Smith, 8, born Lincs
Mary, therefore born between 1785 and 1791, allowing for rounding down. James Smith would have died c1832/1833.
I can't find Mary in 1851, so she either remarried or had died. Too many Mary Smith deaths in Louth around this time to be certain any of them are the correct person.
1851 - Embleton, Northumberland
Free Smith, 28, born Louth
Agness Smith, 25, born Scotland
James Smith, 1, born Embleton, Northumberland
1861 - Nettleton
Free Smith, 38, born Louth
Agnes Smith, 34, born Scotland
James Smith, 11, Born Barnbrow (?), Northumberland
Agnes Smith, 10, born Embelton, Northumberland
Thomas Smith, 8, born Nettleton
George Smith, 6, born Nettleton
Mary Jane, 4, born Nettleton,
Rebecca, 2, born Nettleton
Sarah, 1 mo, born Nettleton
1871 - Tetney
John Free Smith, 49, born Louth
Agnes Smith, 45, born Stitchill
Agnes Smith, 20, born Embleton
Thomas Smith, 16, born Nettleton
George Smith, 16, born Nettleton
Mary Smith, 14, born Nettleton
Rebecca Smith, 11, born Nettleton
Sarah Smith, 9, born Nettleton
John F Smith, 7, born Tetney Lock
Elizabeth, 5, born Tetney Lock
Benjamin, 3, born Tetney Lock
1881 - Blyth's brickyard, Barton-upon-Humber
John Free Smith, 59, born Louth
Agness Smith, 29, housekeeper, born Embleton
1891 - Barley's brickyard, Barton-upon-Humber
John Free Smith, 68
Agness Smith, 39, housekeeper
Rebecca Smith, 30
Still trying to figure out how Joseph Cammack, born in Nettleton and who settled in Barton is linked to the Smiths. Given that two of his children are named Smith Free Dous Cammack and Agnes Smith Cammack, it seems probable there is a connection. I wonder if Joseph couuld have been another child born to John Free Smith and Agnes Smith.
And I came across this:
1891 - Ness End Brickyard, Barton-upon-Humber
George Smith, 35, born Nettleton
Rose H Smith, 35, born Barton (plus all other children)
James H Smith, 12
Agnes E Smith, 11
Beatrice A Smith, 8
Mary Smith, 6
John Free Smith, 4
Rebecca Smith, 3,
Rosa Smith, 11 mo
Ada Parson, visitor, 73, Grimsby
All these marriage are at St James, Louth, where the father is listed as James Smith. Taken from Lincolnshire 1837+ marriage indexes http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/
22/7/1849
Thomas Longstaff, son of John married Elizabeth Smith
17/5/1841
William Bordman, son of James married Ann Smith
23/12/1841
John Smith married Jane Pawson, widow daugther of Elvin Jackson
15/6/1843
George Smith married Emma Jane Gillott
12/12/1852
Roger Hall, son of John married Sabina Smith
19/12/1853
John Smith married Charlotte Walters
The Freeman caught my eye
25/4/1859
Freeman Smith son of Freeman married Eleanor Ann Topham
All these marriage are at St James, Louth, where the father is listed as James Smith. Taken from Lincolnshire 1837+ marriage indexes http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/
22/7/1849
Thomas Longstaff, son of John married Elizabeth Smith
17/5/1841
William Bordman, son of James married Ann Smith
23/12/1841
John Smith married Jane Pawson, widow daugther of Elvin Jackson
15/6/1843
George Smith married Emma Jane Gillott
12/12/1852
Roger Hall, son of John married Sabina Smith
19/12/1853
John Smith married Charlotte Walters
The Freeman caught my eye
25/4/1859
Freeman Smith son of Freeman married Eleanor Ann Topham
George and Rose Smith's 73-year-old visitor on the 1891 is listed as Ada Parson.
Here's another daughter of James & Mary, from Freereg
St James, Louth
Baptised 09 Jul 1820
Ann daughter of James & Mary of Louth, Buckmaker? (I guess it's brickmaker badly written)
Lynn the Forest Fan
20-10-12, 17:42
Thanks for the summary Shona. The George who you found in 1891 is my gg grandfather, the Agnes E is Agnes Elizabeth & is still around in 1911, John Free Smith was my father's great uncle who he can remember.
I have their visitor as Ada Pearson, but I have no idea who she was.
That 1849 marriage certainly looks interesting :)
I have been to see my parents today & asked if my Dad knew the name Cammack, he couldn't remember (his memory is not good) but Mum thought the name was familiar. Thry did recognise Finkle Lane, as it is more or less opposite my grandparents old house, so they are likely to have known him.
I think it unlikely that Joseph could have been John & Agnes' son as one of my relatives (who found me through here) had details that Agnes had written of her children's births & death.
Thanks for the extra baptism, I must have missed Edward when I checked the prs :) & Ann too!
Lynn the Forest Fan
20-10-12, 18:02
Just checked, Ada Pearson is Rosehannah's 1st cousin once removed. the grandaughter of her father's sister Rachel
Oh, thanks, Lynn. That puts me out of my misery! :D
Lynn the Forest Fan
20-10-12, 20:11
Thats ok Janet. I just checked to see if I had any Pearsons already on my tree & there she was!
Lynn the Forest Fan
20-10-12, 21:20
Just been looking at the ancestry tree & it does look interesting, particularly as it gives a maiden name for Mary (Stevenson) and a death date for James (1831), suggesting that Rebecca wasn't his. I am going to try contacting the owner in the hope they can tell me where the info came from.
Mary was aged 50 in 1841, therefore she was born c1785-1791 (accounting for rounding of age). If she married at full age, then she could have married from about 1805/6.
We have identified the birth of Ann in 1820, which Mary was aged betwwen 29 and 35 at the time of Ann's birth.
Assuming the couple married in Louth (and that's not certain), there are two marriages to consider.
1 James Smith and Mary Hodgson, 21 Feb 1805.
2 James Smith and Mary Bywater, 4 Oct 1814.
If either of these women are the correct Mary, there is quite a gap between marrying and the birth of children.
Looking at the Louth baptisms to James and Mary Smith on FreeReg, there are three to James and Mary Smith in 1817, 1818 and 1820, where the occupation of the father is given as sailor/meriner. Same couple? Unlikely, as this couple had a child baptised on 27 December 1820. James the tilemaker/brickmaker's daughter, Ann, was baptised on 9 July 1820.
Having searched further, I feel we need to discount the birth of Edward Smith in 1826 to James and Mary Smith. The birth lists the father's occupation as bricklayer. However, I have found another baptism for a child of this couple dated 12 March 1823. As John Free Smith was baptised in March 1823, this is a different James and Mary Smith.
I'm going to search surrounding parishes to see if there are any more births and a potential marriage.
Family Search has the following marriage: James Smith to Mary Stephenson, 1819, Caistor registration district.
Nettleton - where some of Free Smith's children were born - is at the bottom of the hill from Caistor. Laceby is only a few miles away, too.
This ties in with the public tree on Ancestry.
My concern is that the tree on Ancestry has place of birth for Mary Stephenson as New Holland, but we have Elizabeth baptised in Louth two days later. Mind you, when chatting about this with the OH, he reminded me that I was baptised in a totally different place from where I was born.
But she did name her first child as Free Longstaff, which makes me feel that we have the right Mary.
Now, how about her parents...
Just been looking at the ancestry tree & it does look interesting, particularly as it gives a maiden name for Mary (Stevenson) and a death date for James (1831), suggesting that Rebecca wasn't his. I am going to try contacting the owner in the hope they can tell me where the info came from.
Did you check the tree that had the photos of Betsy and Thomas?
Thomas Longstaff married Elizabeth Smith in Louth J/A/S 1849.
Just been looking at the ancestry tree & it does look interesting, particularly as it gives a maiden name for Mary (Stevenson) and a death date for James (1831), suggesting that Rebecca wasn't his. I am going to try contacting the owner in the hope they can tell me where the info came from.
Ah! Wonder if this is they mysterious Cammack connection?
Lynn the Forest Fan
21-10-12, 13:11
I think you meant that Elizabeth was down as being born in New Holland, not Mary :), when I checked the census, 2 of them had her as coming from Louth & another New Bolingbroke!
That marriage certainly fits, as we don't know that Mary came from Louth, they may just have settled their prior to their marriage.
I emailed the tree owner & am awaiting a reply. Un fortunately a Smith Stephenson marriage doesn't explain the use of the name "free"
I think you meant that Elizabeth was down as being born in New Holland, not Mary :)
Oops! Blush.
The tree on Ancestry with the photos of Betsy Smith and Thomas Longstaff has exact dates, so let's hope the owner gets back in touch. Here's hopiing that the owner has taken the info from certificates.
Unfortunately a Smith Stephenson marriage doesn't explain the use of the name "free"
Checking birth registrations on Ancestry, they also have a son named Benjamin Smith Longstaff born in Caistor reg district in 1856. He turns up on various New Zealand electoral roles in Taranaki from about 1880.
Lynn the Forest Fan
21-10-12, 13:57
There are a few trees with her on, some giving New Holland as place of birth & others giving Louth, some with parents & some without. The pics are on a few trees & seem to have been copied from one to another, so it is hard to see where they originated. :(
There are a few trees with her on, some giving New Holland as place of birth & others giving Louth, some with parents & some without. The pics are on a few trees & seem to have been copied from one to another, so it is hard to see where they originated. :( Cut and paste a message to each tree owner!
Here are the Longstaffe family in 1861 livnig in Keelby. In this both Thomas and Betsy are recorded as being born in Louth.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=LINRG9_2392_2393-0402&fn=Free&ln=Longstaffe&st=r&ssrc=pt_t43132247_p12621763382_kpidz0q3d1262176338 2z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&pid=21965571
Free is there and Benjamin Smith Longstaff(e) is down as Smith.
Here are the Longstaff family in 1871 - living in Wootton.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&h=4803866&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t43132247_p12621763393_kpidz0q3d1262176339 3z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid
Hannah married in New Zealand in 1875.
Lynn the Forest Fan
21-10-12, 18:30
I found Free in 1851 with his paternal grandparents, but interestingly enoguh the ancestry trees don't seem to have found that census record.
I noticed that there were twins on the Ancestry trees - Charles and Isaac. Betsy Longstaff nee Smith had a twin, Diana, didn't see?
The Longstaff John tree owned by carolynsarten has recently added (June this year) pics of the twins when young and when they were 90. This is the tree that looks the best sourced, too.
Also noticed that name Free appearing in subsequent generations in NZ.
Not sure why they didn't pic up the 1851 census. Perhaps they didn't make the connection and search using Free as one of the search criteria. Smith can be a bit daunting!
Lynn the Forest Fan
21-10-12, 22:13
I didn't notice any other twins, although we don't know for sure that Betsy was a twin, they might have just been baptised at the same time. I will have a look at that tree & try & contact her :)
Forgot to post this snippet found while googling Taranaki, where the Longstaffs settled in NZ.
'Waite, Andrea; Sarten, Carolyn (c.2000), Tom & Betsy Longstaff and descendants, 1827-1990, Waitara, [N.Z.]: Longstaff Family Reunion Committee'
Also found this on Google Books.
Tom & Betsy Longstaff and Descendants, 1827-1990
Publisher: Longstaff Family Reunion Committee, 1990
The Waitara Genealogy and History Project have an indexed Longstaff tree. Might be worth contacting them. Here's the link.
http://www.waitarahistory.org.nz/index.html
This is an account of the Halcione arriving in New Zealand in 1875. The Longstaffs are named.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/halcione.htm
Lynn the Forest Fan
22-10-12, 13:22
Thats interesting Shona, that is why there are so many photos etc on the ancestry trees. I have heard from the lady with the phoytos of the twins & she was very interested to here about John Free Smith as it explained Betsy calling her first son Free. I will be replying later :)
That's wonderful, Lynn! Crossing my fingers that it's the right family, but it's looking good. Keep us posted of any developments.
Lynn the Forest Fan
22-10-12, 17:50
I have just sent my email, fingers crossed, but I am sure Betsy is going to be John's sister. I am hoping that she might be able to confirm that the mary Stevenson marriage in Caistor is the right one :)
Lynn the Forest Fan
23-10-12, 17:11
I have heard back from her & although she couldn't remember where she got mary & James' details from, she did give me details of Elizabeth's birth cert which gave her father as James Smith Bricklayer. I am now desperate to go to the archives & check some details. Thank you so much for your help Shona x
I have heard back from her & although she couldn't remember where she got mary & James' details from, she did give me details of Elizabeth's birth cert which gave her father as James Smith Bricklayer. I am now desperate to go to the archives & check some details. Thank you so much for your help Shona x
Brilliant! It was a pleasure to be of help.
Lynn the Forest Fan
26-10-12, 20:40
All these marriage are at St James, Louth, where the father is listed as James Smith. Taken from Lincolnshire 1837+ marriage indexes http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/
22/7/1849
Thomas Longstaff, son of John married Elizabeth Smith
17/5/1841
William Bordman, son of James married Ann Smith
23/12/1841
John Smith married Jane Pawson, widow daugther of Elvin Jackson
15/6/1843
George Smith married Emma Jane Gillott
12/12/1852
Roger Hall, son of John married Sabina Smith
19/12/1853
John Smith married Charlotte Walters
The Freeman caught my eye
25/4/1859
Freeman Smith son of Freeman married Eleanor Ann Topham
Assuming that the marriage for James Smith & Mary Stephenson in Caistor, is the correct one, I did a search for a Mary Smith born in Caistor & found one in 1861, shown as "Mother in law" and the head of the house was William Boordman and his wife was Ann (who came from Louth) and she is the right age for the Ann a baptism was found for! Just to find her in 1851 now!
Edit: Have now found Mary with the Bordman family in 1851, age given as 41, but I think it says 61. so I am fairly sure this is the right one. Yet another marriage to look up at the archives!
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