View Full Version : Who Do You Think You Are - John Barnes 17th Oct
kiterunner
17-10-12, 06:55
BBC1 at 9 p.m., last in the series.
Margaret in Burton
17-10-12, 08:40
Wonder why the John Bishop one isn't being shown. He's still on the opening titles, well he was last week.
Wonder if there is something in it that is a bit sensitive suddenly.
The BBC guide still says:
There will be 10 episodes. More information coming soon
here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007t575/episodes/guide
maggie_4_7
17-10-12, 15:15
I haven't watch Celia Imrie's one yet I think her thread put me off a bit.
I will watch it though at some point.
I hope John Barnes' one lives up to what I believe they should be in content.
Didn't they miss a week for something and probably one has been put back to another time.
maggie_4_7
17-10-12, 15:17
The BBC guide still says:
There will be 10 episodes. More information coming soon
here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007t575/episodes/guide
I wonder why - they seem to have swapped them around. Perhaps there's something in the current news that might ring true in the episode of John Bishop or they've found something even more interesting and have had to re-edit :D
Margaret in Burton
17-10-12, 21:03
The John Bishop one will be on later in the year.
I kept nodding off in this John Barnes one
kiterunner
17-10-12, 21:09
Episode Summary
John Barnes still lives in Liverpool where he used to play football. He has been married twice and has seven children. His father Ken Barnes was a Colonel in the Jamaican army, who trained at Sandhurst and rose to become second in command in the Jamaican Defence Force. He was posted to England as a military attache when John was a child. Ken also played football, captaining the Jamaican team and becoming the President of the Jamaican Football Federation.
John has two sisters Tracy and Gillian. He went to Jamaica to see his mother Jeanne who gave him some information about her father Frank Hill.
Frank was a journalist and radio broadcaster, and became the chairman of the National Heritage Trust. His father Stephen Hill was also a journalist. Frank's wife, Jeanne's mother, was called Monica.
John visited King's House, the Governor's Residence, to find out about why Frank and his brother Ken Hill were imprisoned in an internment camp in 1942. He was shown colonial documents which stated that Frank and Ken were detained on the 3rd Nov 1942 with two others (collectively known as the 4 H's) under emergency wartime legislation because their political activism was thought by the Governor to be a danger to the state. They were among the leaders of the People's National Party (PNP) which campaigned for Jamaican independence, and Frank was also said to be the owner of a printing works which printed anti-British literature. The British Government wrote letters to the Governor asking for the 4 H's to be released, and they were released on the 18th Mar 1943.
John's mother's cousin Robert Hill, who is a professor at UCLA, sent John some information about Frank's father Stephen Hill, who worked his way up to associate news editor at the Jamaican newspaper The Daily Gleaner.
John visited the University of the West Indies to find out more. In 1928, the Daily Gleaner had printed stories (supposed to have been written by Stephen Hill) which accused Marcus Garvey of plotting to attack and intimidate prominent Jamaican citizens, including Stephen Hill, ahead of the general election. Marcus Garvey denied the story and held a public meeting to protest against the Daily Gleaner.
Stephen Hill died in 1937, aged 54. John visited the Jamaica Archives to meet a researcher who showed him an article describing how a splash was heard and Stephen's body was found in the water. He also read tributes that were published to Stephen, which mentioned that he was a racehorse owner.
John then visited the Ward Theatre to find out more about Frank. He was shown a pro-independence newspaper called the Public Opinion which Frank produced in 1937, and a newspaper interview from the 1970's in which Frank looked back at his career. His play "Upheaval" about strikes and riots which took place in 1938, was performed at the Ward Theatre in 1939 and received very good reviews. As well as writing the play, Frank also appeared in it.
The People's National Party was also launched at the Ward Theatre. In 1952, the 4 H's, including Frank and Ken Hill, were found by a party tribunal to be secret communists and were asked to leave the party. John went to visit Rachel Manley, the granddaughter of Norman Manley who was the leader of the PNP at that time. Rachel said that Frank and Norman remained friends even though Frank had had to leave the party. Ken rejoined the PNP in 1968. Frank went back to journalism. He died on the 8th Jun 1980, age 69.
I Googled his grandfather at the beginning of the show and got loads of hits. AND he had a rellie who was Prof of Jamaican history! Lucky sod.
Olde Crone
17-10-12, 21:10
Another one in this series that failed to hold my attention I'm afraid.
OC
Must admit I struggled - again!
I did stick with it, but once again it was all far too centred on the celebrity to be of general interest I felt, especially from a Family Research view point.
Certainly I think many Jamaicans probably want to know their roots - just like we do over here - but this was all too specific. :(
I think the series perhaps needs renaming to Celebrities' Historical Biographies
Agree with Dorothy , I got past it about 25 mins before it ended and went up my own tree
I wanted to know more about Stephen Hill. How he became such a senior journalist.
Another one in this series that failed to hold my attention I'm afraid.
OC
Ditto
maggie_4_7
18-10-12, 08:14
I wanted to know more about Stephen Hill. How he became such a senior journalist.
Me too and some of the FH of the Hill family.
I did sit through it all and it was interesting on one level but to be frank as FH program I was bored with this one, I kept hoping they would go a further back a lot further back.
kiterunner
18-10-12, 08:22
I reckon that John's mum could have told him everything that he found out in this episode - he said at the beginning that she had told him lots of stuff when he was younger but he hadn't listened!
I reckon that John's mum could have told him everything that he found out in this episode - he said at the beginning that she had told him lots of stuff when he was younger but he hadn't listened!
Or Prof Hill...
A true son of Jamaica, Professor Robert Hill was educated at St. George’s College in Kingston, the University of London, the University of Toronto and then to the University of the West Indies, Mona, where he obtained a Masters Degree in Political Science in. His thesis focused on Marcus Garvey’s Political Activities in Jamaica between 1927 and 1935.
Professor Hill’s interest in the subject of Garvey provided him with an analytical framework for his quest to redress what he identified as the “lack of a substantive sense of national loyalty in Jamaica” during the pre-Independence period. Professor Hill describes himself as a lifelong student of the Garvey movement. His keen interest in Garvey and his work was initiated by his late uncles, Frank Augustus Hill, a renowned journalist and labour activist; and Ken Hill, the then Mayor of the City of Kingston, whose responsibilities facilitated his exposure to Garveyites in Jamaica. The effects of these encounters led Professor Hill to conclude, “Garveyism is not just a set of beliefs. It is an ethos in the conduct of life”.
Plus there are loads of books on Jamaican history that mention the 'famous Hill family of political activists'.
And here's another member of the family he could have asked:
JASON HILL, a Jamaican who is assistant professor of philosophy at Southern Illinois University in the United States, has produced an impressive study on how human beings can take on a new personality through greater awareness of the power of the mind in rising above inhibiting constraints of race, colour and nationality.
Dr. Hill is a member of a well-known Jamaican family. He is the grandson of Frank Hill, of journalism, politics and trade union fame. His father is the former Reverend Phillip Hill, now known as Blessed St. John of Jesus. Another member of the family is Professor Robert Hill, son of Frank Hill's younger brother, Stephen, and himself a scholar and man of letters, noted for his research work on National Hero Marcus Garvey.
WendyPusey
18-10-12, 09:56
I'm afraid I turned off after 20 minutes. very boring.
Stephen Hill married Monica. Did they mention her surname? I'm still intruiged to know more about Stephen. He was associate editor of the oldest newspaper in Jamaica and had enough money to have racehorses. Wasn't John Barnes declared bankrupt a few years ago?
The Gleaner was established in 1833 by Jacob Raphael DeCordova and his brother Joshua - Jewish Jamaicans. Jacob settled in Texas in 1839 and was elected to the Texas House of Representatives. Michael deCordova served as managing editor until 1948.
kiterunner
18-10-12, 10:50
Stephen Hill married Monica. Did they mention her surname? They didn't, but I will see if I can find it out.
Wasn't John Barnes declared bankrupt a few years ago?
Yes, but according to Wikipedia, "A few days after being sacked by Tranmere, Barnes was declared bankrupt. He has described the bankruptcy as a technicality, saying "The bankruptcy issue is a tax oversight which is being dealt with." Barnes' claims of the bankruptcy being a "tax oversight" proved true and the order was quickly overturned"
kiterunner
18-10-12, 11:06
Stephen Hill married Monica. Did they mention her surname?
Looking back at my episode summary, Monica was Frank's wife, not Stephen's.
Stephen died in 1937 age 54, so he was born about 1883. And Frank died in 1980 age 69, so he was born about 1911. I'm thinking that Stephen could be Stephen Augustus Hill who was born 20 Dec 1882 at St Andrew, Jamaica, mother Imogene Annetta Fipps (from FamilySearch, which has the images of Jamaican Civil Birth Registrations.)
There is a birth registration 25 Nov 1910 for a son of Stephen Augustus Hill and Daisy Ione Hill, formerly Harrison. Stephen's occupation is given as Journalist. So it looks as though this is the right Stephen!
So, looking at the image for Stephen's birth registration, he was born 20 Dec 1882 at 20 Barry Street, Kingston, mother Imogene Annetta Fipps, a Higgler. Father's name left blank. Birth registered 4th Jan 1883 by Imogene Annetta Fipps, mother, of 20 Barry Street, who made her mark.
Stephen certainly did well, considering he was born illegitimate to an illiterate mother.
kiterunner
18-10-12, 11:17
Googling for the name "Stephen Augustus Hill" brings up some entries from the Daily Gleaner on a site called Newspaper Archive, including one dated 17 May 1937 which looks to be the report of his death. It is a pay site but it lets you view a couple of papers free per day. But I can't get it to show the page large enough to read! When I click on the + sign it is still too small, and if I click on "full screen it asks me to subscribe. The magnifying glass tool just about makes it possible to read enough to confirm that it is the right person.
kiterunner
18-10-12, 11:23
Imogen Anita Phipps was christened 19 Dec 1866 Kingston, father Charles Phipps. Date of birth 28th Jan 1866. Father's occupation Baker.
kiterunner
18-10-12, 11:28
I can't see what happened to Imogen after Stephen's birth. I don't know whether Jamaican records on FamilySearch are complete, though, but I'm thinking not, because I can't find Stephen's marriage to Daisy either. Of course they may not have married in Jamaica.
I'm thinking that Stephen's father's surname was probably Hill and wondering whether it would give his name on Stephen's marriage certificate!
kiterunner
18-10-12, 11:42
Searching on Google books, it seems that Stephen A Hill edited various editions of "Who's Who in Jamaica". I wonder whether he also has an entry in any of them which might give more information about his background. They all seem to be snippet view only for me.
The unseen footage has some more info on Stephen Hill. He appears in the Jamaican Who's Who (which he compiled!) as the son of the late Stephen Augustus Hill. Education: Private tuition and by Jesuit Fathers. Married Daisy Harrison, daughter of the late George and Charlotte Harrison. After leaving school, he joined the composing dept of The Cleaner.
kiterunner
18-10-12, 11:49
Oh, I forgot to look for unseen footage this time! Thanks, Shona.
Here is the link:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/13858
kiterunner
18-10-12, 11:55
The unseen footage has some more info on Stephen Hill. He appears in the Jamaican Who's Who (which he compiled!) as the son of the late Stephen Augustus Hill. Education: Private tuition and by Jesuit Fathers. Married Daisy Harrison, daughter of the late George and Charlotte Harrison. After leaving school, he joined the composing dept of The Cleaner.
You mean the Gleaner! :d
It actually says "son of the late Stephen A Hill", so his (supposed) father could possibly have a different middle name.
The footage of him at the Gleaner was interesting - I kept hitting the pause button to read what was in Who's Who.
You mean the Gleaner! :d
:o:o:o:o:o:o
kiterunner
18-10-12, 12:16
Oh, and I forgot to look up the meaning of "higgler" (Stephen's mother's occupation) - in Jamaica, it means a market trader dealing in hand-crafted wares.
kiterunner
18-10-12, 13:00
Daisy Harrison could be the child born 7 Jan 1883 at Glebe Land, St Andrew, daughter of George Theodore Harrison, a carpenter, and Charlotte Harrison, formerly Armstrong.
Sue from Southend
18-10-12, 14:04
If only the programme had done what Kite and Shona have done! There must be many people with Jamaican ancestry who would have appreciated a few tips on how to find Jamaican records. Instead, they got a potted political history lesson:rolleyes:
Yes this thread has been a lot more interesting than the programme. I got toally bored.
I wondered too how the original Hill got started in the newspaper business and also how the family reacted when John didn't return to Jamaica when his Military Atache father and family did.
Think it needed more down to earth genealogy and not politics.
Yes this thread has been a lot more interesting than the programme. I got toally bored.
I wondered too how the original Hill got started in the newspaper business and also how the family reacted when John didn't return to Jamaica when his Military Atache father and family did.
Think it needed more down to earth genealogy and not politics.
Thanks! I still wonder about Stephen Hill. It didn't sound as if he came from a well-off family, yet was privately educated and became part of white-dominated upper middle-class Jamaican society. The fact that the Gleaner was set up by white Jewish Jamaicans was intruiging, especially as the DeCordova family were politically active.
kiterunner
18-10-12, 14:37
We don't know anything about his father, though, apart from his name maybe being Stephen A Hill too. Could be that he was wealthy.
I'm now getting sidetracked by the deCordova family who set up the paper and found the following:
Abraham 'Jacob' de CORDOVA
Born: c.1690 Amsterdam
Died: 03 Apr 1766 Kingston, Jamaica
Occupation: Printer
Father: Jacob Haim 'Moses' de CORDOVA
c.1715 to
Simcha 'Joshua' PALACHE
Born: 1694
Parents: Joshua PALACHE & Clara 'Jacob' JESSURUN
Wonder if there is a familial link between the deCordovas and Hills?
Olde Crone
18-10-12, 21:42
It does seem likely doesn't it, Shona. My immediate thought is that the Hills were slaves originally to the deCordovas.
OC
Olde Crone
18-10-12, 22:03
Hmmm, though! A quick google throws up an interesting book about the De Cordovas and states that their genealogy is "impossible to rconstruct", which is quite a common fault in Jewish families, lol.
There is a suggestion though, that the De Cordovas were closely connected to the "Henriques" family and I am reminded that one of the "Four Hs" was a man called Henry.
There is also mention of a book entitled something like "Relations between Jews and the Blacks in Jamaica" but I couldn't even get a preview of that.
OC
Ann from Sussex
20-10-12, 08:33
"Yes this thread has been a lot more interesting than the programme. I got toally bored."
Again!!!! On both counts for me. This series has been a huge disappointment as there has been far too much general history (which is a whole different subject) and not enough genealogy, which is what I watch WDYTYA for. I did stick with this one to the bitter end but found it very boring. And then, the final straw for me was learning that the John Bishop episode will be shown "later in the winter". When? I suppose this is because they interrupted the series with that Panorama special and can't put all their schedules back by a week.
I just watched half the programme and then started reading this thread at the same time. Usually I can do the two things at once, but this time I couldn't keep hold of the programme, because I wasn't finding it interesting enough. Right from the start all I wanted to know was, were the Hill family part of the 90% of black Jamaicans descended from slaves and, assuming they were, when and how did they become part of the 'middle class elite'?
I would have also been interested to know how JB's parents reacted to him playing football for England rather than Jamaica.
Rosie Knees
23-10-12, 14:30
I'm so glad I recorded that episode!
I was able to wizz through it, stopping occasionally to see if the subject had moved on (which it never did...), and it was over in about 15 minutes. zzzzzzzzz
This thread has been much more interesting!
BlueSavannah
23-10-12, 15:31
I was really disappointed with this episode as I felt it could have been a lot more interesting if they had looked more in to the Hill family and how to research Jamaican genealogy.
I was really disappointed with this episode as I felt it could have been a lot more interesting if they had looked more in to the Hill family and how to research Jamaican genealogy.
Here are some links on Jamaican and Caribbean genealogy:
Family Histories of Jamaica:
http://familyhistoryjamaica.com/
Jamaican archives:
http://www.jard.gov.jm/
Jamaican Family Search:
http://www.jamaicanfamilysearch.com/
National Archives - Tracing Your Caribbean Ancestors:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/759.htm
Monica was my aunt. Her last name was Richardson.
Me too and some of the FH of the Hill family.
I did sit through it all and it was interesting on one level but to be frank as FH program I was bored with this one, I kept hoping they would go a further back a lot further back.
----I agree with You. I'm doing some research on my family. That's Jeanne's (John Barnes' Mother Monica) and the Richardson side of the family. Unfortunately not much was being told about them.---Little bit disappointing though i saw my grandparents on one of the photo's, that was quite nice :o)
kiterunner
10-11-12, 10:22
Welcome to the site! It must be frustrating to see a relative appear on the programme and not find out anything about your side of the family.
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