PDA

View Full Version : General chat thread about "Who Do You Think You Are?"


Merry
11-10-12, 14:57
If all the programmes are so boring, perhaps someone should 'phone Michael Parkinson and let him know? His tree was famously rejected as having nothing of interest, but maybe they coud use it now!!

Who was it who had both slaves and a slave owner in their tree? That's the sort of programme worthy of the series title (imho).

As usual I've not to see this week's episode yet.

kiterunner
11-10-12, 15:02
Who was it who had both slaves and a slave owner in their tree? That's the sort of programme worthy of the series title (imho).



I think both Moira Stuart and Spike Lee fit that description. As I remember, Moira was shocked to find she was descended from a slave-owner but Spike took it in his stride.

Shona
11-10-12, 15:27
Who was it who had both slaves and a slave owner in their tree? That's the sort of programme worthy of the series title

Colin Jackson also discovered he was descended from a slave and a Scottish slave owner. This was one of my favourite episodes because it also took his DNA and linked that in with the family history.

Here's the summary:

Colin was born and brought up in Wales, but knows that his parents came from Jamaica in the 1960s. Given the range of ethnic backgrounds associated with Jamaica, Colin's quest revolves around trying to piece together his mixed heritage. To help untangle his roots, Colin started his research by taking a DNA test.

From talking to his parents, Colin is able to piece together some of his history. His maternal grandfather, Dee, arrived in Cardiff in 1955 to find work, and brought his children with him.

Dee's wife Maria elected to stay behind, and returned to her native Panama to look after her sick father. Although she tried to keep in contact with her family, Dee did not pass on any of her letters to their children, fearing they might leave for Panama, and consequently the family lost contact with her.

In the meantime, Dee bought a house in Cardiff, and rented out a room to other economic migrants from Jamaica, which in 1962 included Colin's father, Ossie.

Colin's DNA test results were relatively surprising. His genetic make-up consists of 55% Sub-Saharan African - comparatively low for someone of Jamaican descent - and 38% European, which would appear to come from his mother's side. Yet there was also 7% 'native American', a term used to cover all indigenous people from the Americas, including the original inhabitants of Jamaica, the Taino.

Research has shown that Taino settlements survived beyond European colonisation, and indeed Colin shares some of their facial characteristics: almond eyes and comparatively flat face.

It's likely that their bloodline survived through their links to the 'Maroon' communities - descendants of the original West African slaves brought to Jamaica by the English from 1661.

Through force of arms, the Maroons achieved a semi-independent status in the 18th century, before losing out in the war of 1796. Many were captured and transported to Nova Scotia and Sierra Leone.

Colin was able to use archives in Jamaica to trace his father's family, through certificates, to his mother, Marie Wilson, and her parents, Jacob Wilson and Eugenia Stewart. He found that many of his cousins still live on the island, of whom a large number showed great sporting prowess.

Further back in the family tree, Jacob's father was Adam Wilson, an emancipated slave who was linked to the Greenmount plantation owned by Valentine Dwyer. Although Adam died a free man in 1849, he was born into slavery and lived to see the emancipation of his people in 1834.

Yet this emancipation came at a great cost. A slave rebellion in 1831-1832 left 200 dead in the field, and a further 500 were executed afterwards. Adam did not take part, and was able to buy five acres of land at a cost of £25. He was still largely tied to his former master's land, but worked hard to make his own smallholding profitable.

Happy to have provided an explanation for his African and Taino heritage, Colin remained curious about the European side and dug a bit deeper.

From Panama, he obtained his mother's birth certificate, which showed her father was Richard Augustus Packer and her mother was Gladys McGowan Campbell.

Working further back, Gladys's parents were Albertina Wallace and Duncan M Campbell and the trail led back to Jamaica. Duncan Campbell was part of a large Scottish community on the island, and Albertina was his housemaid.

It was not unusual for white 'gentlemen' to have children with their black staff. She was eventually given his house, and then worked as a prison warder - an important position at the time. Her daughter, Gladys, would have been of mixed race, and at some time during her youth would have moved to Panama.

There is a long history of West Indians heading to Panama during the various attempts to build the Panama Canal, first under the French and then under the American team in the first decades of the 20th century.

After some careful research in surviving employment records, Colin found that Richard Packer, Gladys's husband, worked on the canal in 1905 for six months, before finding employment in the hospital. He stayed in Panama until at least 1921, when Maria was born. She returned to look after Richard when he fell ill, leaving her own children to start a new life in Wales with her estranged husband Dee.

Merry
11-10-12, 16:02
Ah it was Colin Jackson I was thinking of. I do remember Moira Stuart on the programme though. Who is Spike Lee???! (Don't answer that; I'll look him up!)

Shona
11-10-12, 16:12
Ah it was Colin Jackson I was thinking of. I do remember Moira Stuart on the programme though. Who is Spike Lee???! (Don't answer that; I'll look him up!)

Another favourite epidosde of mine was Alisatair McGowan, who had always thought of himself as Scottish, but discoverted he was Anglo-Indian with Irish roots :d

Merry
11-10-12, 16:21
Oooh yes, I remember his programme!

I also remember David Tennant jumping in an open grave and really annoying the viewers! (or did I dream that?)

Shona
11-10-12, 16:27
Oooh yes, I remember his programme!

I also remember David Tennant jumping in an open grave and really annoying the viewers! (or did I dream that?) I recall he was in a church and some graves has been discovered during excavation work. Did he do a bit of a Hamlet and hold a skull? Again this episide challenged him about who he thought he was - especailly his Unionist roots in Northern Ireland.

Merry
11-10-12, 16:52
Did he do a bit of a Hamlet and hold a skull? Yes, I think you're right!

Lynn the Forest Fan
11-10-12, 18:02
Didn't Ainsley Harriott have slaveowner ancestors?

Merry
11-10-12, 18:09
Yes, he did too.

I suppose the original idea of the show was to challenge what celebrities imagined about their past family - but as the series have gone along it's become harder to do that and so we see the majority of celebs, broadly speaking, have just the sort of ancestors we thought they might have!

"Who do you think you are?"

"Erm, the same person I thought I was before, thanks!"

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 18:56
Yep agree with you Merry.

This probably should be a new thread but anyhow.

Off the top of my head my favourites not in any order or series were:-

Larry Lamb
Len Goodman
Colin Jackson
Ainsley Harriott
Stephen Fry
Jeremy Paxman
Sheila Hancock
Kim Cattrall
Julian Cary
Alan Cumming
Barbara Windsor
David Dickinson
Nigella Lawson
Robert Lindsay
Alistair McGowan
Greg Wallace
Patsy Kensit
Jerry Springer
Esther Rantzen
Annie Lennox

I'm sure I've probably missed a few out that I really liked too but I was going on memory I feel these were real FH's told them something they didn't know and because of that became interesting to the viewer too.

Merry
11-10-12, 19:20
I'll make a new thread!

Merry
11-10-12, 19:29
You have a excellent memory, Maggie!

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 19:32
Colin Jackson also discovered he was descended from a slave and a Scottish slave owner. This was one of my favourite episodes because it also took his DNA and linked that in with the family history.

Here's the summary:

Colin was born and brought up in Wales, but knows that his parents came from Jamaica in the 1960s. Given the range of ethnic backgrounds associated with Jamaica, Colin's quest revolves around trying to piece together his mixed heritage. To help untangle his roots, Colin started his research by taking a DNA test.

From talking to his parents, Colin is able to piece together some of his history. His maternal grandfather, Dee, arrived in Cardiff in 1955 to find work, and brought his children with him.

Dee's wife Maria elected to stay behind, and returned to her native Panama to look after her sick father. Although she tried to keep in contact with her family, Dee did not pass on any of her letters to their children, fearing they might leave for Panama, and consequently the family lost contact with her.

In the meantime, Dee bought a house in Cardiff, and rented out a room to other economic migrants from Jamaica, which in 1962 included Colin's father, Ossie.

Colin's DNA test results were relatively surprising. His genetic make-up consists of 55% Sub-Saharan African - comparatively low for someone of Jamaican descent - and 38% European, which would appear to come from his mother's side. Yet there was also 7% 'native American', a term used to cover all indigenous people from the Americas, including the original inhabitants of Jamaica, the Taino.

Research has shown that Taino settlements survived beyond European colonisation, and indeed Colin shares some of their facial characteristics: almond eyes and comparatively flat face.

It's likely that their bloodline survived through their links to the 'Maroon' communities - descendants of the original West African slaves brought to Jamaica by the English from 1661.

Through force of arms, the Maroons achieved a semi-independent status in the 18th century, before losing out in the war of 1796. Many were captured and transported to Nova Scotia and Sierra Leone.

Colin was able to use archives in Jamaica to trace his father's family, through certificates, to his mother, Marie Wilson, and her parents, Jacob Wilson and Eugenia Stewart. He found that many of his cousins still live on the island, of whom a large number showed great sporting prowess.

Further back in the family tree, Jacob's father was Adam Wilson, an emancipated slave who was linked to the Greenmount plantation owned by Valentine Dwyer. Although Adam died a free man in 1849, he was born into slavery and lived to see the emancipation of his people in 1834.

Yet this emancipation came at a great cost. A slave rebellion in 1831-1832 left 200 dead in the field, and a further 500 were executed afterwards. Adam did not take part, and was able to buy five acres of land at a cost of £25. He was still largely tied to his former master's land, but worked hard to make his own smallholding profitable.

Happy to have provided an explanation for his African and Taino heritage, Colin remained curious about the European side and dug a bit deeper.

From Panama, he obtained his mother's birth certificate, which showed her father was Richard Augustus Packer and her mother was Gladys McGowan Campbell.

Working further back, Gladys's parents were Albertina Wallace and Duncan M Campbell and the trail led back to Jamaica. Duncan Campbell was part of a large Scottish community on the island, and Albertina was his housemaid.

It was not unusual for white 'gentlemen' to have children with their black staff. She was eventually given his house, and then worked as a prison warder - an important position at the time. Her daughter, Gladys, would have been of mixed race, and at some time during her youth would have moved to Panama.

There is a long history of West Indians heading to Panama during the various attempts to build the Panama Canal, first under the French and then under the American team in the first decades of the 20th century.

After some careful research in surviving employment records, Colin found that Richard Packer, Gladys's husband, worked on the canal in 1905 for six months, before finding employment in the hospital. He stayed in Panama until at least 1921, when Maria was born. She returned to look after Richard when he fell ill, leaving her own children to start a new life in Wales with her estranged husband Dee.

I must admit Colin Jackson's WDYTYA was one of my all time favourites and I liked the bit at the end where they went back to tell the family about it. I always liked that bit. I remember Colin when he told his family and the worry of what happened to the grandmother's grave in South America and Colin's mother said in a welsh accent not verbatim but it went something like 'oooh that's terrible I'm so glad we came to Wales I love Wales' :)

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 19:36
You have a excellent memory, Maggie!

They are the ones I remember best.

I was sat here going through them in my mind.

I remember Jerry Springer's well I sobbed all the way through it well nearly all the way through it oh yes and Stephen Fry's had a lot about the Holocaust Esther's did too but it wasn't quite as upsetting.

Shona
11-10-12, 19:41
I liked the bit at the end where they went back to tell the family about it. I always liked that bit

Me, too. In David Baddiel's episode, he presented mum with a brick from the factory her family used to run before the Holocaust. Oh, and the bit where another David Baddiel from the religious side of the family bumped into him in the street.

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 19:48
Me, too. In David Baddiel's episode, he presented mum with a brick from the factory her family used to run before the Holocaust. Oh, and the bit where another David Baddiel from the religious side of the family bumped into him in the street.

I don't remember David's to be honest.

But I do remember Stephen Fry going back to tell the family about those in his family that almost certainly did die during the Holocaust, they never ever knew they only assumed but he sort of confirmed their fate with the few records and information that was gathered on his WDYTYA from the Holocaust records. Again it was fate I remember that his ancestor came to the UK and some stayed behind.

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 19:52
I also remember Jeremy Paxman standing on a Glasgow street and getting upset when he realised what bloody hard life his great-great grandmother Mary had when left widowed with 9 children and her poor relief records.

That's the sort of stuff FH is its made up of stuff you don't know about its stuff that comes as a surprise or a shock whatever but that's the real meaning of WDYTYA is taking those walls and misconceptions down and hopefully along the way they find it interesting and in most cases humbling that they survived.

Merry
11-10-12, 19:56
And I'm sure we all remember Julian Clary's mother! :rolleyes:

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 19:57
And I'm sure we all remember Julian Clary's mother! :rolleyes:

Ve Are Not German!

:D

I loved it.

I think Julian did too.

Shona
11-10-12, 20:03
Here are the people featured in Series 1 from 2004. Went out on BBC2.

Bill Oddie
I remember this being a very powerful starter for the series. They explored his mother's mental illness and the hardship the family endured.

Amanda Redman
She was introduced to a relative (I recall there may have been bigamy or a 'woman in every port') who looked so like Amanda.

Sue Johnston
I think her story was connected to the railways.

Jeremy Clarkson
There was a great quote about being the product of hundreds of years of interbreeding and he wasn't happy that a relative hadn't patented the Kilner jar.

Ian Hislop
Lots of First World War stuff (he's still doing that subject).

Moira Stuart
I was fascinated by the black students at Edinburgh University, but I recall that I felt she was rather cold.

David Baddiel
Very engaging and full of twists and turns - the questions over who was his mother's father?

Lesley Garrett
Now, wasn't there some awful mining tragedy?

Meera Syal
I remember her in a Hindu temple as they read out her family tree.

Vic Reeves
Jim Moir's bigamist ancestor.

Shona
11-10-12, 20:05
And I'm sure we all remember Julian Clary's mother! :rolleyes:Not happy that there were Germans everywhere!

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 20:05
Out of those I only remember

Bill Oddie
Jeremy Clarkson
Moira Stuart

I vaguely remember Amanda Redman's one isn't it terrible I don't remember the others I'm sure I watched them.

Merry
11-10-12, 20:09
Shona, are you sure you don't have an eidetic memory?!!! I remember three of those! Mind you, I know there were whole series I didn't watch.

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 20:12
Not happy that there were German's everywhere!

Whatever you do don't find any Germans.

hahaha that's all they did find Germans.

:D

Come on Shona Series 2 please :)

Margaret in Burton
11-10-12, 20:25
Whatever you do don't find any Germans.

hahaha that's all they did find Germans.

:D

Come on Shona Series 2 please :)

*likes*

Shona
11-10-12, 20:27
Series 2 - shown in 2006.

Jeremy Paxman
The tough-talking interviewer breaks down in tears at the realisation of the conditions in which his family lived.

Sheila Hancock
She had a picture of a mystery woman - who looked a lot like her - Mrs Zuhorst (haven't checked the spelling), who turned out to be a business woman.

Stephen Fry
A fave of mine - I welled up when he was reading a plaque outside a house in which his family had lived and a current resident explained to him that the residents wanted to remember the people who had been rounded up by the Nazis.

Julian Clary
Following on from Stephen Fry, we have Julian and Herman the German...and a whole host of other Germans. Mum not happy.

Jane Horrocks
Love her accent, but can't remember the details apart from the fact it was another tough woman battling against the odds.

Gurinder Chadha
Explored her family's businesses in Kenya and then India (or Pakistan). I'm sure partition was part of the story.

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 20:27
Another favourite epidosde of mine was Alisatair McGowan, who had always thought of himself as Scottish, but discoverted he was Anglo-Indian with Irish roots :d

hehe I remember that and there was a whole community in India called McGowan.

Brilliant episode I think once he realised he embraced his heritage but it was a bit of a shock to him I think.

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 20:31
Not happy that there were Germans everywhere!
Last edited by Shona; Today at 20:28. Reason: Apostrophe crime.

LOL

Gwynne should be in bed by now!

Oooooops Gwynne @ 4 oclock...

Shona
11-10-12, 20:34
Not happy that there were Germans everywhere!
Last edited by Shona; Today at 20:28. Reason: Apostrophe crime.

LOL

Gwynne should be in bed by now!

Oooooops Gwynne @ 4 oclock...

I'm sooooo ashamed :o:o:o:o:o

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 20:52
Anyway Series 3 Shona and your thoughts on it.

I like your summary.

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 21:01
Series Two had four of my favourites in

Jeremy Paxman
Sheila Hancock
Stephen Fry
Julian Clary

Shona
11-10-12, 21:07
Shona, are you sure you don't have an eidetic memory?!!! I remember three of those! Mind you, I know there were whole series I didn't watch. Just an insomniac who watches the repeats in the wee small hours.

Shona
11-10-12, 21:33
Series 3

The episodes in this season have a lot of my faves.

Barbara Windsor
Cor blimey - costermongers, publicans and East End dockers...and a mass famine grave in Ireland.

Robert Lindsay
Freedom for Tooting. Actually, no. Illegitimacy, children passing away in infancy and buried in mass graves plus a bit of bigamy in Derbyshire.

Colin Jackson
What a sweetie. Summary posted earlier. Really great episode. I think that it's the only one to date that has used DNA.

David Tennant
Another goodie. David McDonald to his mum and dad. The Doctor travelled back through time to take in the Highland Clearances on Mull and football in Northern Ireland. Felt challenged 'as a bit of a leftie' when he confronted sectarianism in Northern Ireland.

David Dickinson
I liked this one, too. Looked at his Turkish roots - the Gulasarians. Was he estranged from his mum? There was a picture of her and he was the spitting image.

Nigella Lawson
Lyons Corner House was a family enterprise. She was convinced - because of her dark colouring - she was of Sephardic Jewish origins, but it turned out she was Ashkenazi.

Jeremy Irons
So very disappointed to discover that he wasn't Irish and that there was not one drop of shamrock blood in his stock.

Julia Sawalha
I remember her looking dreamily out of a window while wearing a sari and thinking that they didn't wear saris where she was. She also had a cheesemonger in the family. Although given that I watch repeats of these shows late at night snacking on cheese, I could have dreamt that.

That's all for today, folks.

maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 21:34
Just an insomniac who watches the repeats in the wee small hours.

I am amazed at how many I don't remember.

I will have to catch up on those that didn't make an impression on me first time around.

Merry
11-10-12, 21:34
I was going to say lol, but I guess it's not great being an insomniac, even if you do get to watch WDYTYA? on a regular basis!

Margaret in Burton
11-10-12, 21:41
The Barbara Windsor one also discovered that she had a connection to the artist John Constable.

Shona
11-10-12, 21:44
I was going to say lol, but I guess it's not great being an insomniac, even if you do get to watch WDYTYA? on a regular basis!I'm used to it, Merry. Rather than fret about it, these days I watch repeats on TV that I enjoy. Just don't get me started on repeats of the Antiques Road Show...or Supernanny...or Trench Dectectives...zzzzzzzzz

Shona
11-10-12, 21:46
The Barbara Windsor one also discovered that she had a connection to the artist John Constable.Thanks for that memory jog - you're right. That's the sort of 'reveal' that makes a good show.

Janet
11-10-12, 22:35
What is the opposite of eidetic memory?

Me! Looking up eidetic memory because I can't remember what eidetic memory is!

:d:d:d:d:o:eek::d

EDIT: In my own defense I suppose I should point out that we would call it photographic memory, and I can indeed remember what that is even though I don't have it. :)

Phoenix
11-10-12, 22:49
I don't really watch many of these (I can get sound from tv but have to make up my own pictures!) largely because I have heard too many people telling me how they were made. In the ealy ones you could focus on clothes & cars, to work out the order in which the programmes were filmed: usually not the order in which the facts were presented.

Personal favourites were:
seeing Paxman cry and learning how East Anglian ag labs might have got to the mill towns

John Hurt - because he was so wrong in what he thought about his family and we got to see some Croydon records actually returned to Croydon.

Kevin Whateley - because the portrait of his ancestor was so spookily like him. A Sutton historian appears in one shot of that programme. The Sutton archivist quizzed him with his brush with celebrity, but he had been so engrossed in his own researches, he hadn't noticed any unusual activity!

Shona
11-10-12, 23:34
Kevin Whateley - because the portrait of his ancestor was so spookily like him. A Sutton historian appears in one shot of that programme. The Sutton archivist quizzed him with his brush with celebrity, but he had been so engrossed in his own researches, he hadn't noticed any unusual activity! Was that the Bank of England connection?

Phoenix
12-10-12, 00:04
Probably! There were records at LMA, before its revamp, I think, so going back a long time ago.

Merry
12-10-12, 08:28
What is the opposite of eidetic memory?

Me! Looking up eidetic memory because I can't remember what eidetic memory is!

:d:d:d:d:o:eek::d

EDIT: In my own defense I suppose I should point out that we would call it photographic memory, and I can indeed remember what that is even though I don't have it. :)

A photographic memory involves viisual memory only. An eidetic memory involves all the senses. I also have neither!! lol TBH I only came across the word 'eidetic' via a TV sit-com!

Asa
12-10-12, 08:44
There's a lot I either didn't watch or have forgotten but I really enjoyed the Annie Lennox one this series and also Jane Horrocks from a long time ago. Although they both irritated me initially, I found the Esther Rantzen and David Tennant ones moving.

Because they shared some similar ancestry to me, I remember the Barbara Windsor and Patsy Kensit ones very well and found them fascinating but my favourite was the Julia Sawalha one because I discovered we were very distant cousins.

Unlike everyone else apparently I couldn't stand the Colin Jackson one - he riled me all the way through and then compounded it in the insensitive way he told his mother about something horrible he'd discovered - even though I can't remember what it was!

Phoenix
12-10-12, 09:16
Ooh, I remember the Jane Horrocks one, because the presenters got their facts wrong!

They said one child had died in a certain way, because it fitted the facts of what they wanted to say, but didn't get the cert. Someone on GR actually did get the cert (they were cheaper in those days!) and found she died of something entirely different!

kiterunner
16-10-12, 13:38
This week's episode (John Barnes) is now being billed as episode 9 of 9, and some other series is in its place next week (Brazil with Michael Palin.) So it seems the John Bishop episode has either been dropped or held over till the next series. :(

Shona
16-10-12, 13:56
This week's episode (John Barnes) is now being billed as episode 9 of 9, and some other series is in its place next week (Brazil with Michael Palin.) So it seems the John Bishop episode has either been dropped or held over till the next series. :(

Shame - I was looking forward to his episode. He seemed very chufffed to have been chosen and was enthusiastic about what he found.

Olde Crone
17-10-12, 22:12
Having just watched tonight's episode on John Barnes, I feel that this series has been very poor on the whole and that something is lacking overall.

I'm wondering if there are budget restraints this time and that is why they tend to concentrate on just one or two ancestors.

OC

Shona
17-10-12, 22:15
I would have liked to have known more about Stephen Hill. How did he become a journo?

Olde Crone
17-10-12, 22:21
Not just that, Shona - how did this black man work his way into the middle classes and become accepted by them? Given the times and the attitudes of the whites, that was little short of miraculous, surely?

OC

Piwacket
17-10-12, 22:28
That historical aspect fascinated me too - but I guess it would have been a bit too non-PC to bring it up?

As I said on the John Barnes thread above I think the Series has either to ''pull up its socks'' or be renamed Celebrities' Historical Biographies :)

Going back - I did enjoy and remember the David Mitchell one and that hilarious Will Reading!

kiterunner
17-10-12, 22:32
In case anyone missed it, the announcer said at the end that the John Bishop episode will be shown "later this year", whatever that means.

Discussion of tonight's episode on its own thread please!

Shona
18-10-12, 21:10
Watching an old episode of WDYTYA on Yesterday - Graham Norton. So different from the current series.

Jill
09-11-12, 18:37
There's a snippet about John Bishop in the West Sussex County Council staff magazine, he goes to Chichester in search of something but the Records Office say they were only allowed to research for this one particular fact and aren't allowed to say any more!