View Full Version : Who Do You Think You Are - Celia Imrie 10th Oct
kiterunner
10-10-12, 06:53
This evening on BBC1 at 9 p.m., postponed from last week.
ElizabethHerts
10-10-12, 15:02
OOh, she comes from Guildford, my mum's home town and my birthplace.
She also went to the same school as my mum did (until she was 12).
http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/wdytya2012_imrie.php
OOh, she comes from Guildford, my mum's home town and my birthplace.
She also went to the same school as my mum did (until she was 12).
http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/wdytya2012_imrie.php
Interesting feature, Elizabeth. Looking forward to the show.
That's an interesting site Elizabeth, haven't come across that one before, so I've bookmarked it to have a good look round later. Are you a member? Is it helpful/useful?
ElizabethHerts
10-10-12, 15:53
Dorothy, I'm not a member and I came across this article purely by googling Celia Imrie's name. I have been on the site before, though, and I'm signed up, but I haven't been on it for ages.
Ok Elizabeth, thanks - I'll have a look. :)
Dorothy, take a look at this old thread:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10180
There are pros and cons to The Genealogist. HarrysMum wouldn't be without it, at least so she said at that time. WendyPusey said she wouldn't touch them with a barge pole because they'll fine you if they think you're doing lookups for other people.
Crafty Sue
10-10-12, 16:48
OOh, she comes from Guildford, my mum's home town and my birthplace.
She also went to the same school as my mum did (until she was 12).
http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/wdytya2012_imrie.php
Both me & hubby grew up & went to school in Guildford :), know it very well. So am looking forward to this. I doubt she moved in the same circles as us though lol
Do you know which school she attended?
Sue :)
ElizabethHerts
10-10-12, 16:55
Guildford High School, Sue. My Mum and her two younger sisters went there.
Crafty Sue
10-10-12, 17:18
Thanks Elizabeth, not the same school as me.
Sue :)
Margaret in Burton
10-10-12, 21:02
Me and OH dozed off during that.
Too far back. Very few of us can relate to the 16th and 17th centuries.
ElizabethHerts
10-10-12, 21:03
I must admit I dozed off too. It was interesting historically and politically, but I was too tired to take it all in!
kiterunner
10-10-12, 21:06
Episode Summary
Celia Imrie lives in London with her 18-year-old son Angus. She was born in Surrey in 1952. Her father David was a doctor with working-class Glasgow roots, and her mother Diana came from an aristocratic background.
Celia went to visit her cousin Patricia who showed her a photograph of a house called The Croft where their grandparents used to live. Patricia said that Celia's mother Diana was 34 when she married David and had previously been engaged three times.
Celia's grandparents were Charles George Lumley Cator and Adeline Louisa Blois and Patricia gave her a family tree passed on to her by a relative which goes back many generations.
Celia visited the Parliamentary Archives to find out about her 8x-g-grandfather William Lord Russell, born in 1639, the third son of the Earl of Bedford. William was a Whig MP during the reign of Charles II. His wife was Lady Rachel, daughter of the Earl of Southampton. Celia was shown a speech by Lord Russell and a publication claiming that he took part in a conspiracy to kill the king. He was put on trial in 1683 and found guilty of High Treason. He was sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered, but the sentence was commuted to beheading. He made a speech to the crowd proclaiming his innocence, just before he was beheaded. A plaque marks where this took place.
Celia visited Woburn Abbey, the Russell family seat, and was shown a painting of the trial and a pardon issued by King William of Orange after he came to the throne a few years after Lord Russell's trial.
Celia then found out about her 10xg-grandmother (grandmother of William Lord Russell), Frances Howard. Frances was born in 1593, the daughter of the Earl of Suffolk. When she was 13 her family arranged for her marriage to Robert Devereux, the Earl of Essex, who was 14.
In about 1611, Frances wrote a letter to a friend complaining about abuse from her husband, and another letter to a lady called Mrs Anne Turner, which could be interpreted as asking her to kill Frances' husband. There were rumours about Frances' relationship with a man called Robert Carr.
Celia went to Lambeth Palace, where she was shown records of Frances' application to have her marriage annulled on the grounds of non-consummation. A man called Thomas Overbury was opposed to this as he did not want Robert Carr to marry Frances. Thomas Overbury was offered an ambassadorship which he turned down, and for this he was sent to the Tower of London, where he died. Ten days after his death, Frances' annulment was granted, and three months later, she married Robert Carr, the Earl of Somerset.
Two years later, in 1615, Mrs Turner, Frances, and Robert were arrested for conspiring to murder Thomas Overbury. Robert Carr was held in the Tower of London but Frances was put under house arrest until after the birth of her baby (Celia's 9xg-grandmother.) She pleaded guilty but maintained her husband's innocence. Both were convicted and sentenced to death. Frances was soon pardoned due to her confession, her penitence, and her family's good works, and Robert was pardoned seven years later. They were released from the Tower of London in 1622 and Frances died in 1632.
Olde Crone
10-10-12, 21:16
Nope, not interesting as a genealogical programme. This was national history and I already knew all about this, thanks to Jean Plaidy and others,lol.
Disappointing, IMO.
OC
Episode Summary
Celia Imrie lives in London with her 18-year-old son Angus. She was born in Surrey in 1952. Her father David was a doctor with working-class Glasgow roots, and her mother Diana came from an aristocratic background.
To be continued...
Oh dear. I don't envy your task of writing the resumme of this episode - aka, English history of the 17th century.
kiterunner
10-10-12, 21:28
I was expecting to have to take loads of notes! I thought they would be going back generation by generation, not just going back 10 generations on the strength of that tree (though I'm sure it was thoroughly checked out.)
I have Cators in my tree, so I would like to know whether Celia's grandfather is related to them!
Margaret in Burton
10-10-12, 21:30
I think it was possibly one of the worst. Very boring. I think the BBC have run out of ideas. Possibly the only person to find it interesting was Celia Imrie.
kiterunner
10-10-12, 21:32
There is a birth for Charles George L Cator in 1872 Bromley, Kent, so I think this is him in 1881 (sorry if this is of no interest to anyone else!)
Charles G Cator in 1881 (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=cha*&gsln=cat*r&sx=&f1=&f2=&f3=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=1873&rs_81004011__date=2&f29=&_82004011=&_82004013=&_82004014=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1881&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=9&h=13086539&recoff=)
I can't help feeling it was rather a waste of a popular programme on ''Family History'' research which we and others - perhaps look to to get inspiration and help. The Howards/aka Norfolks' history is pretty well documented and I'm sure could have been researched by her or her family. Her Cousin(?) seemed to know more about the illustrious heritage - so between them they too must have resources to have done this research.
That's not to say it wasn't very interesting, but as a History programme.
Olde Crone
10-10-12, 21:39
To put it another way, if I had seen a programme advertised about the Howard/Norfolk family, I probably wouldn't have been interested enough to watch it.
OC
kiterunner
10-10-12, 21:41
While I try and figure the Cators out, I have to say I don't understand why Celia was so proud of Frances Howard - who pleaded guilty to conspiracy to murder! And by the sound of it, her pardon was not on the grounds of innocence or mitigating circumstances, just because her family were influential?
Janet in Yorkshire
10-10-12, 21:53
For the first time ever I turned off the TV before the programme had finished. If I'd wanted to know more about two or three specific Stuart courtesans I'd have gone to the library and borrowed a refence book.
I (and probably a lot more members on here) could wave in the air a tree going back to 10xgt grandparents - in my case to my ancestors John Lincoln and his wife Elizabeth of NW Norfolk. John's older brother Richard Lincoln and his wife Elizabeth were the 6th gt-gdparents of Abraham Lincoln. But I know nothing about most of the individuals, apart from bp, marr & burial dates, along with a few wills. The tree is dry and lifeless and would hardly make a rivetting TV programme. The episode tonight was too remote and the characters didn't breathe.
Jay
kiterunner
10-10-12, 21:56
Celia's great-grandmother's entry in the National Probate Calendar:
1928
CATOR Isabella Maria of 4 Walton-street Kensington Middlesex widow died 1 December 1927 at Manor House Bexley Kent Probate London 3 February to Charles George Lumley Cator esquire and Harry James Shepard solicitor. Effects £17448 7s 9d.
kiterunner
10-10-12, 21:58
So her great-grandparents look likely to be Charles Clive Cator and Isabella Maria Baker (likely marriage Oct-Dec 1865 Kensington.)
Edit - should be Charles Oliver Cator. There is a death for Charles Oliver F Cator Oct-Dec 1876 Bromley, age 40.
kiterunner
10-10-12, 22:05
Charles Oliver Frederick Cator born 21 Apr 1836, baptised 29 Apr 1836 Skelbrooke, Yorkshire, parents Thomas Cator and Louisa Frances.
Thomas Cator married Louisa Frances Lumley 12 Oct 1825 Womersley, Yorkshire.
kiterunner
10-10-12, 22:09
So here are Thomas and Louisa F Cator in 1851 in Skelbrooke, Yorkshire, with children including Charles age 14. Thomas is age 58, Rector of Kirk Smeaton and Incumbent of Womersley, born "Kent, Breckenham" (presumably should be Beckenham.)
Cator family in 1851 (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=0&gsfn=tho*&gsln=cat*r&sx=&f1=&f2=&f4=&f18__n=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f27=&f14=&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=lou*&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1851&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gl=&gss=rfs&gst=&so=3)
kiterunner
10-10-12, 22:21
And there are public trees on ancestry which show Thomas Cator as the son of Joseph Cator born 1733 in Ross on Wye, Herefordshire, and his wife Diana Bertie, with Joseph being the son of John Cator and Mary Brough. I have these people in my tree. I have Joseph down as born 1733 in Southwark, Surrey, but his father did come from Ross on Wye.
My Cator ancestor is Martha Cator born 1729 Ross on Wye, daughter of Jonah and Martha. Jonah was born 1706 and is the brother of John Cator born 1703, the John who married Mary Brough. These are all Quakers, by the way.
If I remember rightly, John Cator and his descendants appear in Burke's Landed Gentry or something like that, so it should be easy enough to check whether Celia's ancestor Thomas Cator is the right one.
kiterunner
10-10-12, 22:30
From "Landed Gentry 1855":
The late Joseph Cator, Esq, a merchant of high standing, s to Beckenham and the other estates of his uncle, John Cator, Esq in 1806. He m at Calcutta in 1780, Diana, sister of the late Admiral Sir Albemarle Bertie, Bt., KCB (of the ducal family of Ancaster) and by her (who d in 1829) left at his decease, in 1818, several children, of whom the eldest is the present John Cator, Esq of Beckenham, and the 4th, Rear-Admiral Bertie-Cornelius Cator.
No mention of Thomas by name, bother. I'm getting in a muddle now, will need to leave this till the morning. I think I have John Cator's will somewhere.
Anyway, looks pretty likely that Celia and I are very distant cousins, lol!
kiterunner
10-10-12, 22:38
I just found Thomas Cator on ancestry in the Cambridge University Alumni and it says he was born 19 Feb 1790, son of Joseph, gent, of Beckenham, Kent, and Diana... married Lady Louisa Frances Lumley, dau of John, Earl of Scarborough...
Thomas Cator (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=alumni6%2c&rank=0&gsfn=tho*&gsln=cator&sx=&=%2c%2c%2c&gs1co=1%2cAll+Countries&gs1pl=1%2c+&year=&yearend=&sbo=0&sbor=&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=37&fh=2&h=104673&recoff=6+7)
So Celia's 2xg-grandfather Thomas Cator definitely ties up with my tree. Will have to figure out exactly how we are related tomorrow though!
I just found Thomas Cator on ancestry in the Cambridge University Alumni and it says he was born 19 Feb 1790, son of Joseph, gent, of Beckenham, Kent, and Diana... married Lady Louisa Frances Lumley, dau of John, Earl of Scarborough...
Thomas Cator (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=alumni6%2c&rank=0&gsfn=tho*&gsln=cator&sx=&=%2c%2c%2c&gs1co=1%2cAll+Countries&gs1pl=1%2c+&year=&yearend=&sbo=0&sbor=&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=37&fh=2&h=104673&recoff=6+7)
So Celia's 2xg-grandfather Thomas Cator definitely ties up with my tree. Will have to figure out exactly how we are related tomorrow though!
V impressed. Enjoyed following your posts more than I did the actual episode.
OC, I remember the Jean Plaidy book as well:-) There's also a factual account of the murder by Anne Somerset called Unnatural Murder.
I understand why people didn't enjoy it but I like Celia Imrie and the period and I did. I think Celia perhaps should have emphasised that she was fascinated by her ancestor rather than proud of her but then I'd be delighted to have such an interesting ancestor:-) I don't think there's much argument for making Frances a heroine but she was a bit of a victim of the society she was born into and her fight against that was fascinating.
Lynn the Forest Fan
11-10-12, 06:07
I found it interesting but was a bit annoyed about the way she was saying Frances was so brave & good etc, she seemed to forget that she had admitted to murder! Also she seemed shocked that her ancestor had been sentanced to being hung drawn & quartered, as that happened to loads of people, including innocent ones, in Tudor times
I'm with Asa, I really enjoyed it. I have Norfolk/Suffolk Howards but no connection, I'm sure.
I was fascinated by the politics of the times and do have a grudging admiration for Frances' refusal to be used a a political tool. And for demanding a divorce. That was very brave in such times. Not so admiring of what she did next, obviously, but she could have been executed if the secret came out.
I'd have loved to have an ancestor like William Lord Russell, so involved and commited to justice and against corruption in high places.
Olde Crone
11-10-12, 07:55
My other thought is - what a cheap episode this must have been to make!
She hardly needed to move from her computer, all this info is online and even though she did touch the actual papers, there really couldn't have been much cost to the Beeb for this one.
OC
Langley Vale Sue
11-10-12, 07:59
I agree with Gwynne, Asa & Lynn, I enjoyed it as well.
It was more of a programme about British history than the usual WDYTYA programmes which deal with specific family history, but this was Celia's family history. I would love to find out that I was related to such a fascinating historical figure, but sadly there's not much chance of that!
I have found that this series of WDYTYA is very 'samey' (is that a word Gwynne? ;)) and not as interesting generally as previous series. Maybe this is because I'm more experienced in researching my own family history now than when the first series was transmitted, as are we all, so find their research too easy & obvious and full of assumptions. I realise that it is primarily an entertainment programme, but it does make it seem research is easy and that original records are easily accessible to all and this has become more obvious with each successive series.
Lynn the Forest Fan
11-10-12, 08:03
I have noticed that in a few, the "celebrity" seems to have family members who already know a lot of the information, so there didn't seem to be much research involved on the BBC's part.
On the paper tree that was shown, was the top person John Neville and was he one of the Warwick Nevilles?
kiterunner
11-10-12, 08:30
I've managed to find it on iPlayer, Lynn (time 06:30 if anyone else wants to look at it) and yes, the top person is John Nevill, Marquess of Montagu, who married Isabel Inglethorpe. I have no idea whether he was one of the Warwick Nevilles though!
Lynn the Forest Fan
11-10-12, 08:31
Thanks Kate :)
Just checked, he was brother to the the Earl of Warwick "the kingmaker"
kiterunner
11-10-12, 08:33
Link to the unseen footage, which includes some checking of that family tree:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/13852
Sorry to say that the unseen footage is pretty boring too!
Celia visited Woburn Abbey, the Russell family seat, and was shown a painting of the trial and a pardon issued by King William of Orange.
Richard Lumley, the 1st Earl of Scarborough, an ancestor of Celia's grandfather, Charles George Lumley Cator, was one of the Immortal Seven - the seven noblemen who invited William of Orange to depose his father-in-law James II.
Ann from Sussex
11-10-12, 09:43
I'm definitely not enjoying this series as a whole as much as previous ones because there have been too many episodes that dwelt on one single aspect of someone's tree - but I do appreciate that there will be many people who enjoy doing that with their own family history and so will find it an interesting approach. It just isn't what I personally have come to expect and enjoy about WDYTYA.
I found Celia Imrie's episode probably the most boring ever....it even trumps Hugh Dennis's WW1 research for me. I switched both of them off before the end as I grew impatient with waiting for something interesting to crop up and I have never done that in anyt previous series. Last night I fell asleep just as they were beginning to talk about Frances Howard and woke up about 20 minutes later to find them still rabbitting on about her....so I switched off and went to bed. Having had to forego WDYTYA last week for a Panorama special I was looking forward to this. BIG disappointment.
Some things irked me about this episode.
William Lord Russell was fervently anti-Catholic. Historians may still debate his actual involvement in the Rye House Plot to assassinate Charles and James, but I didn't take to her comment that he was 'Christ-like' - some sort of martyr. WLR wasn't the only person to be put to death for involvement in the plot, after all.
They mentioned the seven Englishmen (the Immortal Seven) who 'invited' William of Orange to depose the king, but failed to mention one of the seven was an ancestor on her grandfather's Lumley branch.
The Glorious Revolution was not so glorious in Ireland and Scotland. It's worth listening to the Radio 4 documentary Things We Forgot to Remember (it's on the iplayer) about some of the uncomfortable truths about what happened.
We had another baby 'ripped away from her mother' moment when Celia was commented on the Earl and Countess of Somerset's daughter, Anne. Even if they hadn't been in the Tower, Anne would have been given to a wet-nurse. Who was the sister who was looking after Anne while her parents were in the Tower?
Mrs Turner was hung at Tyburn. Wish the show has mentioned that for completeness.
The OH usually dutifully sits through the show and murmurs in agreement when I say: 'Ooh, that was interesting.' Not so this one. He's in full lecture mode - he studied this period in history...from the Irish and Catholic perspective.
Don't get me wrong, I watched the show and was intruiged.
It's John Bishop next week, isn't it?
Ann from Sussex
11-10-12, 12:03
It's John Bishop next week, isn't it?
It will either be him or John Barnes as I was mentally ticking the subjects off last night as they showed them in the opening credits and the two Johns are the only ones we haven't seen.
Just checked - John Barnes. But I sighed just a little when I read the following: 'His grandfather Frank was feared by the British during the Second World War.'
maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 13:10
oh dear I have yet to watch it! It doesn't sound promising.
kiterunner
11-10-12, 13:32
Going back to the Cators - the John Cator who died in 1806 (uncle of 3xg-grandfather Joseph Cator, according to Burke's Landed Gentry 1855) was born in 1728, the son of John Cator and Mary Brough, according to the History of Parliament Online. Wikipedia says that his estates were inherited by his nephew John Barwell Cator, and I don't seem to have kept a copy of his will after looking at it.
I think that Burke's got in a muddle and that Joseph Cator who died in 1818 was actually the brother of John Cator, not his nephew, and John Barwell Cator was Joseph's son. Apparently Joseph's tombstone says he was 84 when he died, which would fit with him being born in 1733, and John Cator was the eldest child of John sr and Mary, so could not have a nephew born in 1733.
So... the Cator line back from Celia's grandfather is:
Grandfather - Charles George Lumley Cator
G-grandfather - Charles Oliver Frederick Cator b 1836
2xg-g - Thomas Cator b 1790
3xg-g - Joseph Cator b 1733
4xg-g - John Cator b 1703
5xg-g - Jonah Cator b 1661
John Cator's brother Jonah born 1706 is my 7xg-grandfather and so the Jonah born 1661 is my 8xg-g.
By my calculations, Celia is my sixth cousin three times removed! The generations in her Cator line are very far apart which makes it quite out of synch with mine.
Ann from Sussex
11-10-12, 14:03
It's a pity WDYTYA didn't engage you to put last night's programme together Kite. Your research is a lot more interesting than what we were given! I know it WAS Celia's family history but it wasn't family history research as we have come to define it through our own experiences was it?
I have to say, I'm very glad my lot weren't well documented in history books and the like because the finding of them wouldn't have been anything like the fun it has been! A distant relative I came into contact with once asked me if I had been trained in the police because of my tenacity in following up clues and not letting go until I had proved (or not) a connection! I haven't (been trained in the police) by the way :D
kiterunner
11-10-12, 14:12
Thanks, Ann!
I think it's funny that Celia's snobby grandfather was the great-grandson of a merchant - surely that counts as "trade"?
To provide a bit of balance, I took a look at Celia's father, Dr David Andrew Imrie (1892-1972) to examine the 'working class' side of her family.
David Imrie was educated at Glasgow and Edinburgh Universities and was registered on 11 August 1915. His address: 3 Nightingale Road, Guildford.
David's parents were: John Imrie and Jane Kerr Pollock.
1901 census - 415 Shields Road, Pollock, Glasgow
John Imrie, 53, steam ship agent, born Glasgow
John Imrie, 23, analytical chemist
Eliza Imrie, 19
James Imrie, 15
Janet Imrie, 16
David Imrie, 8
William Imrie, 6
John is a ship agent, one son is an analytical chemist and another goes on to be a doctor. I suppose this is working class (or 'trade') when compared to Celia's maternal line!
[In addition to David Imrie, Medical Registers also have the following entry: James Imrie, 8 St John's Road, Pollock. Registered 29 April 1925. A relative perhaps?]
I was interested to see that there was a public tree on Ancestry on the Imrie family. Lots of info on the maternal line, not so much on the paternal line. The tree owner? Someone called Celia. Hmmmm.
John Imrie's parents were James Imrie and Margaret Mills who were married in Glasgow on 13 May 1838.
On Family Search, the following children are listed for James Imrie and Margaret Mills:
Grace, b 4 April 1839
James, b 15 August 1843
John, b 29 May 1846
Janet, b 13 September 1849
Matheu (?), b 22 December 1851
James, b 3 August 1854
1861 census - 97 Great Hamilton Street, Glasgow
James Imrie, 47, cotton yarn warper
Margaret Imrie, 48
John Imrie, 14, draper's message boy
James Imrie, 6
A cotton yarn warper and a message boy? That's a bit more down to earth.
Time to take a look at the Pollock branch.
1871 census - Vennel Street, Dalry, Ayrshire
Robert Pollock, 54, builder and landowner, born Barshead, Renfrewshire
Eliza Pollock, 55, born Dalry
Jane Kerr Pollock, 23, born Dalry
Agnes Taylor Pollock, 18, born Dalry
Eliza Ann Pollock, 15, born Dalry
Robert Pollock, 13, born Dalry
Andrew Smith Pollock, 11, born Dalry
Mary Taylor Pollock, 4, born Dalry
James Kerr, 89, retired farmer, born Dalry
Robert Pollock is recorded in the 1851 census as being a master mason who employs 13men. Also in the same census in Dalry, James Pollock is listed as being a master mason employing 13 men.
Monumental inscriptions, Dalry
'Erected in memory of Robert Pollock, late builder, London, who died in Dalry, 14th May 1876, aged 81 years. Janed, eldest daughter of the late John Pollock, builder, Dalry, died 28 February 1871, aged 47 years'
I think London in this transcription is wrong. It's more likely to be Loudon.
Looks as if the Pollock family were fairly well-established builders.
Most of the Pollock children moved to Glasgow.
1881 census - Pollock Street, Glasgow
John Pollock, head, 31, mechanic in saw mill, born Dalry, Ayrshire
Agnes T Pollock, sister, 28, born Dalry
Eliza Ann Pollock, sister, 25, born Dalry
Robert Pollock, 23, brother, joiner at works, born Dalry
Andrew Pollock, 21, brother, clerk, born Dalry
Mary Pollock, 19, sister, scholar, born Dalry
Pollocks living in Pollock Street! Wonder if it was built by the family firm?
Still haven't tracked down Jane Kerr Pollock in 1881. She would have been married to John Imrie by then.
By my calculations, Celia is my sixth cousin three times removed! The generations in her Cator line are very far apart which makes it quite out of synch with mine.
That is brilliant research - really enjoyed following your work.
kiterunner
11-10-12, 14:57
Thanks, Shona, and thanks for the info on the Scottish side of Celia's tree.
maggie_4_7
11-10-12, 20:45
Its what I said before the research and FH of the members of this forum is more interesting than WDYTYA's recent episodes.
Just got around to watching this - I quite enjoyed it as this isn't a period iin history I know much about. I liked Celia and none of the experts grated on me this time! Also loved her jolly hockysticks cousin at the beginning!!
I have also enjoyed reading the research done by Kate and Shona on ths thread!!
Rosie Knees
23-10-12, 11:14
Only part way through but like it so far APART from the fact that they took the hand-written tree as gospel. Yes, I guess the BBC would have researched it but I wish they would have SAID so or put a note on the screen to that effect! Unknowledgeable people watching it could well think that any old hand-written tree is the real thing lol.
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