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Phoenix
07-10-12, 21:56
A couple of months subs to Ancestry has really opened my eyes to the complete and utter garbage that most Ancestry trees are.


On my Skillings line, quite a bit of the info looks as if it came from me originally (though I know that someone else was researching the family pre 1970s)


Unfortunately, Ancestry's hints have created chaos in some of the trees, the sources for which are that vast pool of data from trees which Ancestry has snaffled.

Part of me would like to put the record straight. The other part doesn't want the precious data that I spent years beavering away, poring over original documents to discover, to be taken by a subscription service.

I have absolutely no intention of putting my tree on Ancestry, since most of the information that took so long to gather is now available online and free for anyone who has the patience to find it.

Margaret in Burton
07-10-12, 22:15
No don't tell because if you do no-one will believe you because all of these trees on Ancestry MUST be correct because there are so many of them.

No body believes that they are all wrong because everyone copied from everyone else and they were all compounding error after error.

You know your tree is correct and feel smug about that. I know I do.

marquette
07-10-12, 22:34
No don't tell because if you do no-one will believe you because all of these trees on Ancestry MUST be correct because there are so many of them.

No body believes that they are all wrong because everyone copied from everyone else and they were all compounding error after error.

You know your tree is correct and feel smug about that. I know I do.

I agree.

I know several of the ancestry trees were copied from my private trees, mistakes and all (some I sent print outs or gedcoms to family connections). I have corrected mine, but nobody else has.

I have made a family connection which nobody else has and I am not telling them, because it is so easy to find if you only look.

I have a private tree on ancestry so I can let other family members see what I have found, and I don't mind if they copy it, its their family too after all, but I would like to get some credit if someone else asks them about it. And I would like them to check mine from time to time and see if they need to update theirs.

Very few people contact me "out of the blue" on anestry now, so I can only assume they are copying from the other trees, or no-one else is researching our families.

I am waiting for the day someone asks about the BROWN connection !!

I feel smug too !!

Di

Phoenix
07-10-12, 23:15
Lol, Di.

I have exact dates of baptism on some of my trees, which ought to prompt the question: if you know that, surely you know the parents? But I have NEVER been asked.

Similarly, I have linked two people together as man and wife without having ever found the marriage and despite him being baptised several miles away and being old enough to be her father. The proof is in some grubby records at TNA, which I'd proudly share, if only someone would ask.

JBee
08-10-12, 00:34
I'm happy to share info if I know the people are researching the same family - however I made a mistake and for awhile one of my trees was public (now private again) and someone connected to it - taking the data I'd acquired. However they weren't the same family and as yet I haven't found a connection. In the end they did remove the connection.

If I spot a mistake and can prove it I contact them but not many are happy about it as they could have gone a lot further back on the wrong line (which I did initially too).

On OH's tree I connected to someone who said he couldn't be connected as the man never married!! lol - anyway he then got the certificates himself off scotlandspeople which he copied onto ancestry (I thought I'd given them to him so was in danger of being caught for copyright but I thankfully hadn't). However his public tree is now imblazened with illigitmate son of ........... and he isn't even a direct descendant which I did feel a bit iffy about.

Merry
08-10-12, 06:50
I have exact dates of baptism on some of my trees, which ought to prompt the question: if you know that, surely you know the parents? But I have NEVER been asked.



Oh to be asked a question like that!! I have quite a few examples of info on my tree which should generate similar questions, but I've never been asked either.

Asa
08-10-12, 07:12
I wouldn't. I'm in the same position - there are a lot of trees on Ancestry where I was the original researcher who willingly shared info on GR and the majority of people can't even copy correctly! A few years ago I put all my trees on Ancestry but I keep them all private now. It might be a bit mean but I'm still cross about things like people with distant connections putting my near family on public trees.

WendyPusey
08-10-12, 08:40
I agree with the others. My tree (which is now private and not on Ancestry) has been taken and copied by several people. Some info is wrong, but I'm not telling them. They don't give me any credit even when there is info which no one else would know but me.

Shona
08-10-12, 09:49
A while ago, I did extensive research into lost street names. A real challenge, but I managed to identify what the streets were now called or if the street had been demolished, where it was located. The info was compiled from a wide range of orginal sources. I made my reseach available to people who were interested. Recently, I came across a new book on the subject, which I thought would be of use to me to expand my lost street database. However, on checking a couple of entries, it became clear the author had used my research, because some of the errors I originally made were in the book. I'd subsequently corrected these errors. The author had never asked me about the research and there was no acknowledgement in the book. Grrrr.

Kit
08-10-12, 10:10
I don't understand how people can have wrong info on their ancestry tree when the records are actually on ancestry. I check other trees to see if I am missing things and I'm amazed how we differ because they aren't looking at the available records.

Margaret in Burton
08-10-12, 10:15
I don't understand how people can have wrong info on their ancestry tree when the records are actually on ancestry. I check other trees to see if I am missing things and I'm amazed how we differ because they aren't looking at the available records.

Because Toni they can't be bothered to do the research it's easier to copy.

I remember someone on GR years ago asking for something to help with their family tree they were 'compiling'. I think it was pointed out that the information was out there on free sites such as Family Search. The person retaliated with that they didn't have the time to look at stuff like that. I think they assumed that the boards on GR were there for someone to do it for them.

Some people just want to show off a huge family tree, doesn't matter whether it's their own research or if its correct as long as it goes back to the year dot.

JBee
08-10-12, 10:53
After going off on a tangent I now try and verify by all means possible what I have in my direct line - though not quite so thorough with the twigs - I now tend to put "not sure" if I feel it's a bit iffy.

So with this in mind I found who I thought was a close twig's marriage - everyone on ancestry had him belonging to another family - so I got the marriage certificate and he's mine not theirs and they've gone a lot further back along the wrong line (I did it previously with this twig's brother!! lol).

Mind you I made a lot of mistakes when I first started - made assumptions - if that's the only one in that town with that name it must be mine - wrong!!!!

I would tell the people and say "I have different parents for................" and leave it to them to decide whether they check and correct their tree or not.

Shona
08-10-12, 11:50
After going off on a tangent I now try and verify by all means possible what I have in my direct line - though not quite so thorough with the twigs - I now tend to put "not sure" if I feel it's a bit iffy.

So with this in mind I found who I thought was a close twig's marriage - everyone on ancestry had him belonging to another family - so I got the marriage certificate and he's mine not theirs and they've gone a lot further back along the wrong line (I did it previously with this twig's brother!! lol).

Mind you I made a lot of mistakes when I first started - made assumptions - if that's the only one in that town with that name it must be mine - wrong!!!!

I would tell the people and say "I have different parents for................" and leave it to them to decide whether they check and correct their tree or not.

But how will they react? I contacted someone once on Ancestry about a tree. They persisted in telling me I was wrong, all because of variants spellings. I used a single 'r' in the surname and they used 'rr' - both recognised variants. I had sources, they didn't. They had made assumptions and had the facts wrong - and that tree is still on Ancestry.

Merry
08-10-12, 12:08
But how will they react?

Usually not at all, in my experience! Then they re-establish contact again five years down the line, ask the same question as before and act as if they have never been in touch previously!

JBee
08-10-12, 13:27
I think you can actually put a comment on someone else's tree on ancestry - never done it but wonder what reaction I'd get if I did.

Shona
08-10-12, 13:44
I think you can actually put a comment on someone else's tree on ancestry - never done it but wonder what reaction I'd get if I did.

Now there's a thought!

Janet in Yorkshire
08-10-12, 18:44
Now there's a thought!

I do this now, as I'm fed up with sending PMs and getting no response. They are MY mangled rellies too and I consider it disrespectful to the deceased not to try and submit correct information about them.
I either get a very prompt thankyou message and the tree is ammended, or there is NO response, even though the owner has accessed the site and their tree. However, the comment remains for as long as I (the submitter and sole editor) choose it to be there.

Jay

kiterunner
08-10-12, 19:26
However, the comment remains for as long as I (the submitter and sole editor) choose it to be there.


No, the tree owner can choose to delete (or report) any comment.

Olde Crone
08-10-12, 21:41
Yes, I too used to leave comments on trees and found that was by far the most successful way of provoking some kind of response, either from the tree holder or from someone else who had looked at it.

The cheekiest plagiarism I ever saw was someone who copied my tree AND all my narrative comments, including the line

"I have in my possession a letter from...."

I often wonder what happens if someone xcontacts him and asks to see the letter!!

And OH! to be asked, by ANYONE, how I know this, that or the other. It seems most people will take anything at face value and only disbelieve the person who argues with the something at face value.

"I have the certificate" I told one bloke, in exasperation.

"Ah, yes, but we all know that certificates can be wrong" was his unanswerable argument.

OC

Shona
08-10-12, 22:00
OC - I have had that response from my brother-in-law when the sourced, documentary evidence contradicted a much-quoted family story. He claims all the documents are wrong.

On the other hand, I researched the family of someone with a very unusual surname. She had been told the family were from the Ukraine. There was a connection - gg grandfather, who was from Essex, had been a deck hand on a trawler. The name of that trawler? Ukraine. She thought this was wonderful.

Merry
08-10-12, 22:01
The cheekiest plagiarism I ever saw was someone who copied my tree AND all my narrative comments, including the line

"I have in my possession a letter from...."



I've just seen one like that on Ancestry which has all my notes - "the original certificate is in the green hanging file in the second drawer of the filing cabinet" etc.

Olde Crone
08-10-12, 22:45
Merry

Actually, it isn't even cheeky, it's just down right insulting, because they haven't even bothered to READ a word of the stuff they've copied!

OC

Kit
12-10-12, 03:47
I'm at a stalemate with my 2g grandfather. I have him chuffing off to India and someone else has him disappearing and ending up in NZ. He could not do both.

My problem is I can't find any evidence of his actual date of birth, I have the year and place. The other people have this : My grandma (or great grandma) had his DOB in her birthday book.

This is wonderful except her grandma was born years after he died. Any info I can find about her gg father that would have been provided by him contradicts the DOB and parents they have for him. Someone obviously found a name that matched theirs and latched on to the DOB.

On the other hand my great granny lived with my 2g grandfather for many years and was an adult when he died. She bought his birth cert, I would think she'd know she had the right one and the details of which match up with other info I have found. My problem is she bought it after his death so there is room for error.

marquette
12-10-12, 05:57
Hi Toni,
A dilemma for sure, but great-granny would probably have had some idea, better than others who did not live with 2gg grandfather.

Have you looked at it from the other direction - have you tried to prove that whose birth certificate it is ? I mean, have you tried to eliminate every other possible man of the same name and age ?

Have you checked up on the person who died in NZ - they have plenty of on-lline resources including BDMs and online newspapers. And if he went to India, FIBIS has an online database of baptisms, marriages, deaths and newspaper reports. All quite useful and free.


Di

BlueSavannah
12-10-12, 19:02
Hi Everyone,

I've had a lot of the same issues with the Ancestry trees. My tree is on Ancestry but is private. I will let people view as I always like to share with new contacts.

Two or Three of my lines seem to have a lot of people 'researching', but its clear they have copied the ancestry hints which I also had and were spectacularly wrong (census info for years after the person had died etc). I've also noticed that a picture of a gravestone that I took about 4 years ago, is now on a large number of trees as I shared it with a member who's tree was public so everyone copied it off her.

Vicwinann
13-10-12, 08:42
Unfortunately, Ancestry member trees - in particular - are bringing family research and researchers into disrepute. In much the same way as did the fraudulent lineages created by Gustave Anjou 1863-1942. Some of these forged "genealogies" are still causing untold anguish for and among serious researchers and the LDS.

I am afraid that although it sounds churlish, because of the lack of integrity of some researchers, I will not now publish anything on the net regarding my family for public consumption, and I am also extremely wary as to what I allow to be seen or is sent out by me to anyone privately.
I have been caught several times where my hard-won research has obviously been copied and then published elsewhere verbatim with no credit being given, and also many times when I have contacted people outlining possible errors in their information, I have been roundly insulted or ignored after proving my point.
After a while I think that you develop a gut instinct about the integrity of online contacts from the way that they approach you but one still makes the odd mistake.
Victoria

Olde Crone
13-10-12, 09:10
Victoria

I agree, it does tend to make you churlish and I now put potential relatives through hoops before I give them any information.

If they pass my interrogation, lol, I then drip feed information, partly to control what I give them and partly to gauge how interested and committed they really are, as I don't see why I should hand over 40 years of research only for it to be left unadmired in a drawer somewhere, or tacked onto some rubbish internet tree.

I am also fed up of the attitude of various people who say "I thought this site (whichever one we are on) was about sharing - why are you on here if you don't want to share?". My reply is - I don't mind SHARING, I love SHARING - but only with my proven relatives, not with any old body who happens to have the same surname somewhere in the world.

I'd also like to get something in return for my SHARING. I very rarely do, not even a thankyou sometimes. My SHARING always appears to go one way.

OC

Merry
13-10-12, 09:38
I have been a member of GR for years and about once every two years or so I get a message from a lady askng if we are related and if I have more info on X (our mutual ancestor)? She has the wrong wife for X and will not accept she is wrong despite piles of documentory evidence, but every time she contacts me it's as if she doesn't remember our previous conversations until I remind her, yet the mere mention of her name brings me out in a sweat! I have access to her tree which has a rather blunt comment about me and my research on it, yet she still sends me these messages!

Olde Crone
13-10-12, 09:57
Oooh, Merry, I wonder if it's the same one who plagues me! You'd think mine would remember, because we exchanged a lot of paper information by (expensive) snail mail but each time, it is as if I am a new contact!

OC

Phoenix
13-10-12, 10:20
I suppose I ought to say here that I am extremely grateful to those of my parents' generation who unstintingly shared their hard-won research with me a generation ago. The advantage of snail-mail and hand-written trees was that you had to add each piece of information manually, so each was subjected to scrutiny and you didn't clutter it with third cousins' in-laws.

Because Ancestry doesn't really have anything to offer on my direct ancestors I am playing around with the obscure side shoots in case they shine a light on why some people made what appear to be bizarre or random decisions.

Kit
13-10-12, 10:58
Hi Toni,
A dilemma for sure, but great-granny would probably have had some idea, better than others who did not live with 2gg grandfather.

Have you looked at it from the other direction - have you tried to prove that whose birth certificate it is ? I mean, have you tried to eliminate every other possible man of the same name and age ?

Have you checked up on the person who died in NZ - they have plenty of on-lline resources including BDMs and online newspapers. And if he went to India, FIBIS has an online database of baptisms, marriages, deaths and newspaper reports. All quite useful and free.


Di

Hi Di,
I did check out the NZ man because I wondered if it was the same man and he somehow played up. Given the DOB's of all the children I don't think it would be possible to be the same man. My man did go to Melbourne at one stage though which I found interesting.

I have lots of info on my man and his time in Indian. He was in the merchant navy before going to India. I'm not sure exactly when he left England but I have some original discharge certs which is interesting. I've found a heap of stuff on his kids etc in India and am desperately waiting on FMP to release the India Office Records.

There is no record of where the NZ man came from or when he arrived in NZ.The parents on his marriage cert are not the same as those on the baptism and birth records the family claim is his. Those records do match my 2g grandfather though. The NZ man died and left young children. His wife remarried and left NZ. Not sure if the kids went with her but descendants remain in NZ.

I'm confident I have the right man but not being able to 100% prove it from my end or to disprove the other man is frustrating.

Merry
13-10-12, 11:14
but each time, it is as if I am a new contact!

OC

I find it very hard to imagine anyone could forget you, OC :rolleyes::D:D:D