View Full Version : New TV series about the life of servants
Ann from Sussex
28-09-12, 18:02
Tonight on BBC2 at 9pm. Servants: the True Story of Life Below Stairs. The second part is also on BBC2 tomorrow at 8pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9552656/Servants-The-True-Story-of-Life-Below-Stairs-BBC-Two-Preview.html
This looks as though it could be good and especially interesting for us family historians. I bet most of us have servants somewhere in our tree. I certainly have and will be watching this series with interest.
Crafty Sue
28-09-12, 18:07
Thanks for the reminder Ann, I'll be watching.:)
Sue
Thanks, Ann. It sounds very interesting. Over here they're just now rolling out Call the Midwife on our PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) stations. Since we don't have a television in this house we'll probably have to wait even a while longer for it to be available online. I'll just have to cool my heels!
Ann from Sussex
29-09-12, 11:46
CORRECTION
Sorry I gave wrong info in my first post. My Sunday paper's TV listing magazine from last week which I keep and use said that the second episode would be on tonight (Saturday). It isn't; it is a repeat of last night's episode and the second one will be next Friday. Apologies.
Did any of you watch this programme? I thoroughly enjoyed it - a knowledgable and unassuming presenter with lots of primary sources instead of silly, childish "re-enactments". My grandmother was a parlour maid in the house of an import/export merchant in London on the 1901 census and my mother-in-law entered service as a kitchen maid aged 13 in 1912 in a stately home in Essex. Her ambition was to become a cook but the house became a hospital for wounded soldiers in WW1 and she became a nurse instead. She still became a wonderful cook for her family though!
I watched it and thought it was great.
In my tree I have people from all different classes, from the very highest to the very lowest with everything in between so found it fascinating as I could relate to everything they spoke about.
I haven't seen this yet, but I want to see it now :), so wil have to try and catch it on iPlayer.
Ann from Sussex
29-09-12, 15:20
I haven't seen this yet, but I want to see it now :), so wil have to try and catch it on iPlayer.
Do watch it Merry, it is really interesting and fascinating to learn how things really were for servants.
Crafty Sue
29-09-12, 16:53
I really enjoyed it, especially about the "maid of all work". A distant cousin was employed as one.
Sue
Olde Crone
29-09-12, 17:15
Excellent telly.
My only beef is that she "proved" that servants didn't wear a uniform in the late 1700s. I don't think one set of portraits is proof!
OC
Very odd, I heard exactly the same information given in a talk recently, down to Carlyle's House and Petworth.
William Taylor's diary is well worth reading: it, or extracts from it, have been published. I do wonder what sort of home life he had, as he is never with his wife and sons on any of the censuses, and you certainly would not guess his marital state from the diary.
Haven't seen it yet but I heard the presenter on the radio a few weeks ago and was a bit irritated at the time because she just talked about the drudgery and hardship of life in service. I know it was hard work but my grandmother (born 1904) loved her 14 years in service - worked hard but got away from the hamlet she was born in and saw a fair bit of life and had a lot of fun.
Olde Crone
29-09-12, 18:29
I agree with that Asa - my late MIL went into service at the age of 10 (illegally) and said it was the first time in her life she had slept in a bed and had enough food to eat.
OC
V good show - a WDYTYA for all of us.
I did think it was good, if rather negative all the way through.
I would have liked to have heard a little more on what people were expected to do during their day - I didn't fancy the cleaning 60 pairs of shoes and boots followed by 300 lamps to clean and prime, but then I was thinking, in a household with 60 indoor servants would there really only be one hall boy?
Seeing the amount of work required to clean a small mirror was a bit of an eyeopener!
There is a huge difficulty in comparing with apples and oranges. Was the life of a servant better or worse than a day labourer or a factory worker? Shop assistants wouldn't have such rough work, but would have to stand all day. Laundrymaids, sempstresses, matchbox makers would all have had difficult lives.
The traditional way of improving your circumstances is changing your job. Servants rarely appear in the same household in successive censuses. What we can't tell is whether our ancestors worked for different factory owners etc.
It's a fair point, Phoenix - my grandmother started off as a nursery maid when she was 13 and then became a housemaid. She only stayed in each place a couple of years and on her mother's advice, she only worked in 'big places'. She worked her way up, stopping at second housemaid because head housemaids didn't travel with the family when they went away - so she got to France when she was 18.
Dr Pamela Cox from the University of Essex is a fairly well-known social historian. She wrote a book called Bad Girls which looked into the young girls in reform schools in the Victorian era. Some of them were 'reformed' and 'trained' for domestic service. She wanted to show that the Downtown version of service is a myth as none of the servants seem to do that much work.
My family is full of agricultural labourers and the accounts I've studied relating to the areas where they lived reveal a pretty tough life. The lucky ones were taken on at annual 'hirings'. The less lucky were taken on as day labourers on very low wages. As with so many families, many left the countryside to seek work in industrial towns and cities. One great-great grandmother worked in the coal mines, carrying coal on her back to the surface. Afterwards, she worked on the surface 'sorting coal'. I've read a book on the working life of women in the Fife coalfields and I can see the attraction of domestic service. Particularly when I compare those experiences to the working life of one of my great-grandmothers.
She was born to illiterate farm labourers in Devon. She started her working life in service at about the age of 12. In 1871, at the age of 12, she was a 'nurse girl' to a butcher's family in Devon. Ten years later, she was a housemaid in Russell Square in London (her bedroom was later the room TS Elliot worked in!). I would love to know what she did in the intervening 10 years. What drew her to London and how old was she when she went to London?
The family she worked for was headed by a wealthy French hat and feather merchant, who at the time of the 1881 census, was at his country house. As a Frenchman, he liked his wine and French cuisine. Whether the servants were served French food, I don't know. What I do know is that my gran, my father, one of his brothers and a cousin all worked as cooks or chefs.
By the time of the 1891 census, great-granny was still single and working as a housemaid in Sussex. She was employed by the Christy family - famous for bringing the 'Turkish towel' to Britain. I hope the housemaids got to use the lovely, fluffy towels.
Moving 10 years on, she was married to a Gaelic-speaking crofter in the west of Scotland. She must have continued to work in service. though. One of my uncle's said she was a ladies maid at 'the big hoose'. However, in 1911, she was recorded as a 'crofter's wife'. Still haven't managed to figure out how she met my great-grandfather. Did she move to Scotland and work there? Or did she meet him when a family she worked for took their servants to Scotland for the shooting season?
I have a copy of a letter great-granny wrote when one of her daughters died. In it she described how Mrs Hall wanted to send 'cousin Donald' with the 'Rolls Royce' to drive the family to the burial ground. The whole tone of the letter shows that there was a close relationship between my great-grandmother and Mrs Hall.
The country estate where Mrs Hall lived was built by one of the men who founded what became P&O.
Great-granny in service seemed to have a better time than great-great-grandmother who worked in the mining industry.
I enjoyed the programme. Some of the original sources were exquisite.
Ann from Sussex
30-09-12, 14:43
What a fascinating post Shona.
During my lifetime, my aunt and uncle were housekeeper/cook/secretary and chauffeur/general handyman to the widow of a multi-millionaire who had a large "wedding cake" type house just behind Kensington Palace in London and a country estate in Hampshire. By this time (1940s,50s and 60s), they were the only full time staff she employed. Most of the time was spent in London where my aunt and uncle had a flat in the basement of the Kensington house - somewhere I remember staying many times as a child and a teenager. At the time, I thought ALL Londoners lived in such houses on such a street.:) My sister often stayed with them in their estate cottage in Hampshire before and during the war.
Mrs.X was a pretty good employer I think (she always gave me half a crown when I stayed in London as a child - which was quite a heady amount of money to a 1950s 6 or 7 year old!). When my aunt and uncle retired, she bought them a bungalow on the south coast and also left them something in her will.
Ann from Sussex
30-09-12, 14:49
Moving 10 years on, she was married to a Gaelic-speaking crofter in the west of Scotland. She must have continued to work in service. though. One of my uncle's said she was a ladies maid at 'the big hoose'. However, in 1911, she was recorded as a 'crofter's wife'. Still haven't managed to figure out how she met my great-grandfather. Did she move to Scotland and work there? Or did she meet him when a family she worked for took their servants to Scotland for the shooting season?"
Shona; have you tried a bit of research for the Christy family? I am sure you know that it is a Scottish name (I have Scottish friends with that name) so maybe they were the employers who took her to Scotland and finding out more about them and their houses may give you some clues as to how your gt. grandparents met.
Yes, Ann. I've traced the Christy family and their roots are in Lancashire/Cheshire. I must check out Mrs Hall's background to see if that family had homes elsewhere.
'Granfer' - the crofter - also was a carrier for a while. Before the shooting season got underway, servants of both host and guests were sent ahead with all the luggage, guns, etc. Carriers were in great demand when the steamers docked. A bit like a midern day taxi rank at a station. The family feel this is how Granfer must have met his future wife. The only time he left Scotland was when he married in the West Country.
Granfer was once 'done' for going through a village at what was estimated to be 'about 20mph'. Afterwards, he placed an advert in the local newspaper which read: 'Guaranteed - by law - to be the fastest service in the west. Great-granny fell for a boy racer!
Olde Crone
30-09-12, 20:36
I have found generally that the poorer families who had just one servant, usually employed a relative! Thjis benefitted everyone I think - the girl would be housed and fed and get a bit of pocket money, which she wouldn't have done at home, and she would be theoretically treated reasonably well as she was a relative.
I have also found that these "relatives" often were four or five generations apart and I am constantly amazed at how they must have kept in touch down the years.
OC
Ann from Sussex
01-10-12, 08:59
"By the time of the 1891 census, great-granny was still single and working as a housemaid in Sussex. She was employed by the Christy family - famous for bringing the 'Turkish towel' to Britain. I hope the housemaids got to use the lovely, fluffy towels."
I've only just really taken in what you say here Shona; were they the same Christy family who own Glyndbourne?
My father was in the building trade in the 20s and 30s and he worked on the building of the opera house at Glyndbourne.
anne fraser
01-10-12, 14:08
Generations of my father's family worked for the Inigo Jones family here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kelston_Park,_from_across_valley.jpg. The place is famous for having the first ever flushing toilet. My great grandfather started his working life as a groom and I think he must have enjoyed riding around the estate.
Another great grandmother was orphaned young and trained as a governess as she needed a job with a home. I have just been catching up with the first series of Downton Abbey and it all looks more enjoyable than a factory job.
"By the time of the 1891 census, great-granny was still single and working as a housemaid in Sussex. She was employed by the Christy family - famous for bringing the 'Turkish towel' to Britain. I hope the housemaids got to use the lovely, fluffy towels."
I've only just really taken in what you say here Shona; were they the same Christy family who own Glyndbourne?
My father was in the building trade in the 20s and 30s and he worked on the building of the opera house at Glyndbourne.
Had a look and can't connect these two families
Rosie Knees
04-10-12, 13:20
I thought I'd watched it. Just looked on iplayer and I'd seen the first 15 minutes or so and then must have gone to sleep lol. Caught up now and it was fascinating.
Next week's episode will be in line with a book I'm reading about servants of the Edwardian era.
Margaret in Burton
04-10-12, 13:39
We haven't watched it yet, OH recorded it. He said a couple of nights ago shall we watch it but I was too tired. Didn't realise it was a series.
We haven't watched it yet, OH recorded it. He said a couple of nights ago shall we watch it but I was too tired. Didn't realise it was a series. Three episodes, I think.
anne fraser
08-10-12, 11:25
I found the second episode quite good as well. One of the care homes where I work was once a mission house which took in "morally defective" girls who did the laundry for a local hospital. The old drying shed is now used as a smoking area.
I preferred the second episode, but I'm not sure why!
What became of those girls who never reached the heights of domestic service because they were 'dull' or had epilepsy?
Perhaps things like rag sorting or other unskilled factory work?
Olde Crone
09-10-12, 08:38
Even a "dull" girl could scour dirty saucepans and empty chamberpots!
Girls with severe epilepsy would be locked away in the mental asylum.
OC
Even a "dull" girl could scour dirty saucepans and empty chamberpots!
I would agree with that, but the dozen plus dull/epileptic girls they mentioned in the programme had been trained for domestic service but were considered incapable so were recorded in the "other occupations" column in the records of the domestic service training establishment.
Olde Crone
09-10-12, 09:42
Ah, sorry, I didn't actually see the programme, so was just commenting in general.
A domestic training would still be quite useful for a severe epileptic, who would of course be still expected to WORK in a mental asylum!
OC
Langley Vale Sue
09-10-12, 10:18
Ah, sorry, I didn't actually see the programme, so was just commenting in general.
A domestic training would still be quite useful for a severe epileptic, who would of course be still expected to WORK in a mental asylum!
OC
One of my great aunts was epileptic and was put in St Ebba's Hospital in Epsom, then called Ewell Epileptic Colony, from the age of 13 (when menstruation started) until her early 60s when she was released into the care of a nurse from the hospital. She lived with her until sheltered accommodation became available about 10 years later.
She worked in the laundry at the hospital for all her time in there and lost the sight of one eye when a fellow patient flicked a sheet in her eye during the late 1920s.
She was never talked about and I only knew of her existence when she was released when I was about 13 or 14. She was such a lovely lady, considering what her life had been like, and spent her remaining years travelling throughout Europe, before dying of cancer at the age of 75.
She was such a lovely lady, considering what her life had been like, and spent her remaining years travelling throughout Europe, before dying of cancer at the age of 75.
That is a lovely ending to the story, Sue. :)
Olde Crone
09-10-12, 10:53
Sue
A tragic story. I have a great great aunt who was born deaf and dumb but wrongly diagnosed as an imbecile. She spent many years in the workhouse but was evidently trained well enough to become a children's nurse. She was released, after her father's death, into the care of a clergyman (her "kinsman") at the age of 39 and took with her a glowing reference about her domestic skills and her great aptitude for dealing with small children.
Her three brothers, who apparently knew nothing of her existence, all did well for themselves and lived a comfortable middle class life.
OC
OC - that is tragic that your great great aunt was diagnosed in such a way. I'd heard of unmarried mothers being classed as moral defectives and institutionalised, but wasn't aware that people born deaf and dumb were treated in this way. I appreciate that there were different standards then, but to me it seems just cruel
For reference - 19th and early 20th century census definitions:
Imbecile: Mental age of an infant.
Idiot: Natural fool from birth.
Lunatic: Sometimes of good and sound memory and understanding, and sometimes not.
Following the Mental Deficiency Act 1913:
Idiot: Unable to guard themselves against physical danger.
Imbecile: Incapable of managing themselves or their affairs.
Feeble-minded: Needing care or control for the protection of themselves or others.
Moral defective: Those possessed of vicious or criminal propensities.
And unmarried mothers could be deemed morally defective.
anne fraser
09-10-12, 16:00
Morally defective also covered homosexuality and various addictions.
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