Partridge problems

[ElizabethHerts]

I have Arthur Randolph Partridge who was born in 1865 at Camden Town.
He has 6 children with Frances, but I can't find a marriage for them.

Dorothy Frances
Arthur George
Constance Louisa
Gertrude Edith
Reginald Norman
William H

A couple of the baptisms are on Ancestry.

Here they are in 1901:
1901 Census
PARTRIDGE, Arthur
MARYLEBONE, London
RG13 piece 103 folio 58 page 21
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1901&uir=4b05843eea2cdf3c&lineNo=11&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=285fc175053773e36d394f0be1e11e37f627a5a85 aba707dbfb7678d6c1a53eefeb959b7d4642fcb&pagetype=6#


The youngsters are all together in 1911.

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1911&uir=95359041515e34aa&lineNo=4&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=47798b738f5a37527c9f2fc20c9ecb8f4c4742111 11794ce301125d4ff5f99699ab00bad84ce37d5&pagetype=6

1911 Census
ST PANCRAS, London
Reference RG14PN735 RG78PN25 RD9 SD3 ED24 SN453

I can't find any sign of Mum and Dad, but I think this is Mum's death:

June qr 1911
Partridge Frances 41 Pancras 1b 5

Someone online has Arthur marrying Elizabeth Laurence in 1915.
The marriage was at Marylebone.

Look at this!

1911 Census
PARTRIDGE, Arthur
FULHAM, London
Reference RG14PN256 RG78PN8 RD3 SD2 ED30 SN211

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1911&uir=ffb42a6db10fbe61&lineNo=1&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=cb8ee6962dfa820e7c9f2fc20c9ecb8f4c4742111 11794ce301125d4ff5f99699ab00bad84ce37d5&pagetype=6#

Is it the same Arthur - the occupation is more or less the same as the 1901 census. Was he running two parallel families?

[kiterunner]

It looks like the same Arthur. I can't see the marriage to Frances either.

[ElizabethHerts]

It looks like the same Arthur. I can't see the marriage to Frances either.

Hmm, he must have been flitting backwards and forwards!

[Merry]

There's a birth reg for the baby Eva from the second family, but what about the others?

[kiterunner]

Looking at the London School Records on ancestry, there is a Dorothy Partridge, daughter of Arthur, admitted to Haverstock Hill School, Camden, 26 Sep 1902, date of birth 17 Nov 1890, address 67 Adelaide Road, previous school All Souls Nat. Birth reg Dorothy Frances Partridge Jan-Mar 1891 Marylebone.

[kiterunner]

Then Dorothy is readmitted to Haverstock Hill School in 1904 along with Arthur Geo Partridge dob 31 Jan 1893. Address 52 Holmes Rd. Previous school Park Chapel. Arthur Geo leaves 20 Oct 1905 - left neighbourhood. Dorothy leaves 9 Dec 1904 - over age.

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Merry and Kite.

Dorothy's baptism is on Ancestry:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=LMAbirths&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=Dorothy&gsln=Partridge&dbOnly=_F0005A5E|_F0005A5E_x%2c_F0005A49|_F0005A49 _x%2c_F00058A6|_F00058A6_x&uidh=xt1&pcat=34&fh=5&h=5508167&recoff=9+11+36+49

[kiterunner]

I can't view that image till my ancestry sub gets sorted out, Elizabeth - what does it say?

[ElizabethHerts]

There's a birth reg for the baby Eva from the second family, but what about the others?

When I looked I don't think I could find them - I wonder if they were registered or perhaps under a different name.

[kiterunner]

Gertrude Partridge admitted to Camden Street School 23 Aug 1909, parent's name Francis, date of birth 3 Oct but I can't see the year.

I thought this was probably not her but now I've spotted Reginald Norman Partridge being admitted to the same school, 26 Apr 1909, dob 27 Nov 1902, parent's name Frances, address 20 Goldington Cl, and on the line above is Ger Edith Partridge, dob 3 Oct 1900, same parent and address.

I believe that the mother's name only being shown means that the father wasn't living with them.

[ElizabethHerts]

Name: Dorothy Francis Partridge
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Feb 1891
Father's Name: Arthur Randolph Partridge
Mother's Name: France Partridge
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone All Souls
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers

It gives the details as spelt above and Arthur was a Salesman. They were living at 36 Great Titchfield Street. Dorothy's dob was 17 Nov 1900.

The image is playing up for me - it keeps going blank.

[Merry]

When I looked I don't think I could find them - I wonder if they were registered or perhaps under a different name.

Perhaps he had really only been with Elizabeth for a year or so by 1911?

I've just gone through a list of 1901 families with a Marjorie aged about one and a Violet in the house, but none of the Violet's are as young as three and none had a mother called Elizabeth the right age.

I did see a Marjorie Partridge aged 9mths in 1901 apparently not with parents but I thought I'd eliminated her (forgotten already!!).

[ElizabethHerts]

Dorothy's marriage in 1912 is on Ancestry:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_197909-00337&fn=Dorothy+Frances&ln=Partridge&st=r&ssrc=&pid=7354160

She married Walter Henry Zöller at St Matthew, Oakley Square, and Dad Arthur Randolph Partridge was a witness.

[Merry]

I'm probably just nosy, but I'd love to know what's rubbed out in the name column on that 1911 census a few lines down from the family!

[ElizabethHerts]

I'm probably just nosy, but I'd love to know what's rubbed out in the name column on that 1911 census a few lines down from the family!

I hadn't noticed that before! I have turned it onto the negative view and enlarged it but can't make it out. We need modern technology to help.

[ElizabethHerts]

The penultimate word looks like Elizabeth.

[ElizabethHerts]

I have now discovered that I had found Frances on the 1911 Census before (should have read my notes):

1911 Census
RG14PN743 RD9 SD3 ED33 SN1
St Pancras Poor Law Infirmary Pancras Road London
Frances Partridge Patient 43 Married 22 years 8
children born alive 6 still living 2 who have died Wilts Tisbury


I also have a query about her - that her surname was GANE.

I had contact with a Randolph descendant several years back and some information of the early Randolph family came from her.

[kiterunner]

Yes, I had a look for Franceses born in Tisbury at the right time earlier on and one of the ones I came up with was Frances Gane.

[Merry]

In 1901 there is a Marjory Lawrence aged 18 months, b London, nurse child in the household of people named Daniels in Weybridge, Surrey:

RG13; Piece: 589; Folio: 39; Page: 23

Also a Violet Muriel Laurence aged 3 b London in the household of people named Braithwaite in Clerkenwell:

RG13; Piece: 251; Folio: 121; Page: 27

I don't know for certain that Marjorie is the right person, but I think these could be them:

Leonora Majorie Lawrence 8 Apr 1900 Matthew Charles Lawrence, Elizabeth Lawrence Woolwich St Michael and All Angels Greenwich

Violet Muriel Lawrence, 8 Apr 1900 Matthew Charles Lawrence, Elizabeth Lawrence Woolwich St Michael and All Angels Greenwich


Marriage of parents:

Marriages Dec 1896
Baker Florence Maude Pancras 1b 42
Bramble John Bruce Pancras 1b 42
Laurence Matthew Charles L Pancras 1b 42
Lawrence Matthew Charles L Pancras 1b 42
Spice Elizabeth Pancras 1b 42

Marriage is on the LMA records - Elizabeth Spice is 21 and the dau of William Field Spence, dyer. In 1881 she is aged 6, b Wandsworth. Matthew Chas Leon Lau/wrence is a 23 year old widower son of Wm dec'd, builder. I cannot see another marriage for him though - In fact I'm having trouble finding him at all! (Edit - should re-check that age on marriage in case I misread it)

I have to go out now and I'm leaving this half done!

The only major problem I can see is that Matthew and Elizabeth had at lease two other children, but Elizabeth Partridge says she has four living children and none dec'd in 1911 and I would assume that's the four children in the house. The other two baps were (from memory), Leonard and Edith Law/urence - there may have been one more - I've forgotten now. I saw a Leonard in a home for little boys in 1911. Edith was bap in 1901 but born after the census, but I haven't looked at the address given then, or the one given for the 1900 baps, on the 1901 census to see who was living there.

So, I thought this post might turn out useful/conclusive, but the shops (and daughter!) are calling......so, goodbye until later!!

[kiterunner]

If they are lying about how long they have been married on the 1911 census, then Elizabeth may well not have included all her children in the total. The number of children is supposed to be from the current marriage, anyway.

[Merry]

No, but she had been married (to Matthew Lawrence) for about 14 years and the other two children were younger than the two she has with her. This is the only reason I can give to disprove Elizabeth Laurence nee Spice is the same person as Elizabeth Partridge.

[Merry]

I've just found Matthew L at 29 Percy St, St Pancras and he's aged 10 years from what I was expecting - 23 in 1896 and 36 in 1901! Percy St was an address I saw earlier - I think it was for the marriage. Very annoyingly his wife isn't with him.

[Merry]

Matthew is still alive in 1911 and still a caterer, b Westminster (same as 1901). He's at Rowton House, Lodging House For Men, 1 To 25 (Odd) Kings Cross Road, London W C. His age is 47.

Erm, he doesn't seem to have ever died not existed before 1896 :)

[ElizabethHerts]

Merry, you have been busy. :) Many thanks. I've only just come back to this but it's looking interesting. I'll go off and try to follow this through.

[Merry]

The first child baptised after the census died:

Births Sep 1901
LAWRENCE Edith Grace St. Giles 1b 616

Deaths Dec 1902
Lawrence Edith Grace 1 Wandsworth 1d 361


Do you have ancestry at the moment Elizabeth? I can't read the street address for the batism of this Edith in 1901, but would have liked to have seen if that's where Elizabeth is hiding for the census.

[Merry]

Matthew would have been 18 or so here:

Marriages Sep 1881

BAKER Alice Westminster 1a 894
HICKS Sarah Jane Westminster 1a 894
LAWRENCE Matthew Charles Westminster 1a 894
STEEL William Westminster 1a 894

and there was a dau Lil(l)y Elizabeth b 8th October 1881 and bap May 1882, parents Matthew Charles and Sarah Jane.

[ElizabethHerts]

Name: Edith Grace Lawrence
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 9 Aug 1901
Father's Name: Matthew Charles Lawrence
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Lawrence
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras St James
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

It looks like Jenje Stree, but isn't!

[Merry]

Actually, is it George St? It doesn't look much like it, but further down the same page there's an entry for Jackson which looks like Little George St and the word is similar! There is a little George St in St Pancras.

I tried 4 George St, but there were no Elizabeths there.

[Merry]

Doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't know why I didn't think of this search earlier!!

Births Sep 1915
Partridge Peter F Spice Kensington 1a 177

[ElizabethHerts]

Doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't know why I didn't think of this search earlier!!

Births Sep 1915
Partridge Peter F Spice Kensington 1a 177

Waaay! Result! I didn't think of it either. Well done, Merry. Now it is all definite.


Edit: Just as explanation, I'm rather distracted at present. I have been working on my WOOD ancestors from Lincolnshire and have been trying to sort out a difficult and delicate problem.

[Merry]

Oooh, sounds fascinating!

I spent most of the day choosing my own birthday presents/ so some dreadful clanger isn't made/sum of money wasted lol