Joseph Roe or Rowe MMMMFF

[Langley Vale Sue]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as – Joseph Ro(w)e

Date and place of birth – About 1769, Houghton, Stockbridge, Hampshire

Names of parents – probably Joseph & Martha (nee unknown) Roe

Date and place of baptism – probably 26 December 1769, Houghton, Stockbridge, Hampshire

Details of each of his or her marriages – to Lucy Tonge, 10 April 1800, at Stockbridge, Hampshire

Occupation(s) – Yeoman (on marriage record)

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
Marriage record in 1800 states “of Houghton Drayton”, Hampshire
At least four children baptised in Stockbridge, Hampshire between 1798 & 1810
1851 census - Kings Sombourn, Hampshire, living with daughter Mary Russell & her family

Date, place and cause of death – possibly either 1855 or 1862. I have found two Joseph Roe deaths listed in Stockbridge, either of which could be ‘my’ Joseph, except 1855 would make him 85 and 1862 would make him 92!

Date and place of burial – not found

Details of will / administration of their estate - unknown

Memorial inscription - unknown

Son George Ro(w)e
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=139251#post139251

[Shona]

I've found him on the 1851 census:

King's Sombourn, Hampshire

Ephram Russell, head, 57, woodman, born Houghton
Mary Russell, wife, 51, born Houghton
George Russell, son, 15, woodman, born Houghton
Rosa Russell, daughter, 12, scholar, born Houghton
William, Russell, son, 10, scholar, born Houghton
Joseph Roe, father-in-law, widowed, 81, retired farmer, born Houghton

King's Sombourn and Houghton are both in the Stockbridge registration district.

Can't see any matches for the 1861 census.

[Shona]

Getting my census dates mixed up! I'd transposed 1851 and 1861 - 1851 conducted on 30 March and 1861 on 7 April.

[kiterunner]

So the census says that Joseph was born about 1769-70. Of course it could be wrong, but if he is the one baptised in 1761 he would be 38 when he married Lucy, which would be quite old for a first marriage. Does the marriage entry state whether he was a bachelor or a widower, Sue?

[Shona]

On the 1841 census, Joseph is aged 70.

[Shona]

Found this baptism on Ancestry for Joseph Roe

Christening Date: 26 Dec 1769

Christening Place: Houghton, Hampshire, England

Father's Name: Joseph Roe

Mother's Name: Martha

There's no image, but the date is a better fit.

[kiterunner]

Hampshire Record Office have a will of a Joseph Roe, sen, of Houghton, Hampshire, blacksmith, from 1791.

There are also these entries in their catalogue:

FindingNo 8M52/2

Title Assignment of mortgage on a messuage, barns, stables, outhouses, gardens and backside in Houghton with 2 closes adjoining; close of meadow called Chideocks and 1 acre of land in the common meadow called Drayghton Mead

Date 10 Oct 1808

Description (i) Executors of the will of the Rt Hon Sir Giles Rooke, and Joseph Roe of Houghton, yeoman (eldest son of Joseph Roe, late of Houghton, yeoman)

(ii) Edward Cheyney, yeoman and Thomas Withers, yeoman both of Eling

RefNo Show the rest of this collection
FindingNo 8M52/3

Title Lease for a year (release missing), of a messuage, with appurtenances and 4 acres of land in Houghton (bounds include River Test on east and road to Bossington on west) and land in Houghton Drayton tithing (bounds include Bossington Road on north and Mams Lane on South)

Date 24 Nov 1815

Description (i) Joseph Roe of Stockbridge, yeoman and Thomas Warner of Romsey

(ii) Joseph Foster Barham, esq of Stockbridge

Not sure how many different Joseph Roes in all these!!

[Shona]

The marriage record shows that Joseph Roe was 30 when he marriied.

What's clear is that there is more than one Joseph Roe, yeoman, born about the same time in that area.

[Shona]

Searched Ancestry for Joseph Rowe (and variants) births in Hampshire.

Four matches came up - all in Houghton:

Joseph Roe - 27 Dec 1716
Joseph Roe - 21 Oct 1739
Joseph Roe - 15 Apr 1746
Joseph Roe - 26 Dec 1769

[Shona]

Marriages:

Joseph Roe and Sarah Dixon - 22 May 1743, Houghton, Hampshire, England

Joseph Roe and Milö Allen - 1 Jun 1743, Romsey, Hampshire, England

Joseph Roe and Mary Blake - 17 Oct 1762, Stockbridge, Hampshire, England

Joseph Roe and Lucy Tonge - 10 Apr 1800, Stockbridge, Hampshire, England

[Shona]

Re: The will with the many Joseph Roes.

This is from an account of Hampshire blacksmiths

ROE John (Jnr) Blacksmith
John Roe (Jnr), born 1816. Wife Susannah Freemantle. Their son John,born 1845 married to Elizabeth nee Blandy went on to own 2 breweries and properties in Whitchurch.(including the Red House pub, which is still functioning as a public house and the interior is still very 19th century!).Test lodge in Houghton, and a brewery and adjoining house ""Cleveland house"" in Stockbridge. All this started from lots of hard graft and the proceeds from a small blacksmith's business. Most of the breweries and propery were sold in 1928 and the proceeds sorted between his large family of siblings and children.I would love to know where the smithy's forge was in Houghton but cannot find any maps with this on.

ROE John (Snr) Blacksmith, builder and Brewer
John Roe (Snr), born 1786. A blacksmith in Houghton nr Stockbridge Hants. His father Joseph left the business to him and together he with his son John (Jnr) born 1816, continued with the business. See entry for Joseph Roe.

ROE Joseph Blacksmith
Joseph Roe, born circa 1750 and his son John born 1786 were both blacksmiths in Houghton, nr Stockbridge Hants. Although Joseph had a large family of 7 he left his business to John, who together with his son John, born 1816, and married to Susannah Freemantle,and later, their son John,b.1845 married to Elizabeth, nee Blandy went on to own 2 breweries and properties in Whitchurch.

[Langley Vale Sue]

Thank you Kite & Shona. So much information to digest!

As you have both found, there were many Joseph Ro(w)es in Houghton and Stockbridge. The one Shona found in the census is too young to be 'my' Joseph, although 'my' Joseph did have a daughter Mary.

Re post #6 - that Joseph looks interesting, as there was a son John baptised with parents John & Martha in 1764 in Houghton, but I didn't have a son Joseph for them. 'My' Joseph had a brother John, who is my 4x G grandfather on my maternal grandfather's side.


There were Blacksmiths in the family (I think). I need to check my notes and my FTM to see who they were. I'll do that later today hopefully.

The baptisms I have of Joseph and his brother John were from the Hampshire baptisms from HGS, kindly found for me by a member on another site.

I have only seen a transcription of Joseph & Lucy's marriage, but it states he is 'b' and she is 's'. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=joseph&gsln=roe&msypn__ftp=Stockbridge%2c+Hampshire%2c+England&msypn=1666030&msypn_PInfo=8-|0|0|3257|3251|0|0|0|5266|1666030|0|&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=9p9&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cp=11&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=22576&recoff=13+14&db=epr_Hampshire&indiv=1

[kiterunner]

As you have both found, there were many Joseph Ro(w)es in Houghton and Stockbridge. The one Shona found in the census is too young to be 'my' Joseph, although 'my' Joseph did have a daughter Mary.



Sorry, Sue, I'm a bit confused with all these Josephs - how do you know that the one in the census is too young to be your Joseph, please?

[Shona]

Is his date of birth assumed from the typed transcript of his marriage, where it states he is 30?. The groom in the next entry is also 30. It may be a transcription error.

[kiterunner]

If he was 30 when he got married in 1800, then the census entries you found are the right ages, aren't they, Shona? I think the 1769 baptism looks likely.

[Shona]

I was wondering if a mistransription was the reason for the differing dates of birth. But the age when Joseph Roe married and the supporting evidence of the census seem to indicate that the birth date originally given needs to be looked at again. With all those Joseph's in the same area, it's easy to turn down the wrong road!

[Langley Vale Sue]

Sorry, Sue, I'm a bit confused with all these Josephs - how do you know that the one in the census is too young to be your Joseph, please?

I have a baptism for Joseph 26 July 1761 with parents John & Catherine.
Looking at it again though I agree he could be the wrong one :(.

I don't think I have much hope of finding out if this is the correct Joseph or not, there were just too many of them with brothers named John.:confused:

[Shona]

You have the correct marriage record. As he was 30, that gives a date of birth of c1770.

There is a baptism record for Joseph Roe for 26 Dec 1789 - son of Joseph and Martha Roe.

It also fits in with the age of Joseph Roe in the 1851 census.

I reckon he's the one.

[kiterunner]

You mean 1769, don't you Shona?

[Shona]

You mean 1769, don't you Shona? 1769, yes.

[Langley Vale Sue]

As Joseph was 30 on his marriage, giving his birth year as c1770, surely the baptism in 1789 would be too late?

I see now that the Joseph I have as baptised in 1761 cannot be the same one that married Lucy Tonge in 1800 as he would have been nearer 40 than 30 - unless of course he lied about his age as Lucy was only 21.

I think I need to find a Joseph baptism in 1769/1770/1771.


Thanks ladies, I've just seen your date correction for the baptism in 1769 :)

[kiterunner]

Yes, the one Shona found was 1769, not 1789, Sue.