Who Do You Think You Are - Alex Kingston 19th Sep

[kiterunner]

This evening at 9 pm on BBC1. Actress best known for playing Dr Elizabeth Corday in ER, River Song in Dr Who, and Moll Flanders.

[maggie_4_7]

i am looking forward to this one my only worry is that in the review of it it mentions WWI again and I think I have had enough and would like a bit more FH backwards like the Annie Lennox one and the old format they used to have.

[Shona]

I read that they were doing a bit more WW1 stuff, too, but I that the focus will be on the widow left behind. They are also looking into family stories about a Jewish heritage.

[Shona]

Ah - I've read some more previews about the show and it sounds as if it will be a good episode. Not all all like the Hugh Dennis and Patrick Stewart ones.

[Piwacket]

Looking forward it too - so please don't let them dwell on just one bit - in one of the Wars :D I reckon she's always good at whatever part she plays :)

[WendyPusey]

I remember her as Moll Flanders in the Fortunes and Misfortunes of Moll Flanders film.

[maggie_4_7]

Sounds like it might be art imitating life from some of the other stuff I've read! :)

[Piwacket]

Great! What a woman Elizabeth was :D - so I wonder what happened to all that property? I expect someone will be able to find out :) Let alone what they'd be worth on the market these days :eek:

Her gtgrandad was very old to be a volunteers in WW1!

[kiterunner]

Episode Synopsis

Alex Kingston lives in Los Angeles with her daughter. Her parents Tony and Margarethe, who is German, and Nicola, one of Alex's two younger sisters, live in Surrey.

Tony's mother Mitty (real name Helen) died in 2008. Her father was William Henry Keevil, a photographer, who died in WW1. His widow didn't remarry after his death but lived with Tony's parents.



William and his wife had a son Bernard, and Alex's uncle, Tony's brother, is also called Bernard. He lives in Kent and showed Alex a copy of William's medal index card, which shows that he was a sapper in the Royal Engineers. He also showed her William's death certificate showing that he died of wounds in Belgium on the 7th Aug 1917.

William's children were aged 16, 10 and 4 when he died, and the family lived in Wandsworth. A researcher showed a copy of William's birth certificate to Alex. He was born on the 7th Nov 1875, parents Walter Keevil, a lawyer's clerk, and Ellen nee Law.

Alex looked at the 1891 census entry showing William as a lantern slide maker age 15, a and the 1911 census showing him as a magic lantern slide manufacturer on his own account. The 1912 birth certificate for Mitty shows William's occupation as photographer.

1891 census entry for the Keevil family on Findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1891&uir=7f9c8000b12c747cdf44b2028eb53f77&lineNo=9&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=424cd40dbc3645e769b7339b841ea10aeaa199ba4 67b108ddc93f2c011c72ffba01aa50f8414e6dc&pagetype=6)

1881 census entry for the Keevil family on Findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1881&uir=1f3f6b7e524435de&lineNo=4&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=e7885ed994e988627c9f2fc20c9ecb8f4c4742111 11794ce301125d4ff5f99699ab00bad84ce37d5&pagetype=6)

1901 census entry for William H Keevil and family on Findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1901&uir=d09248252ed7161b&lineNo=3&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=0537cec5a60dbd2b6d394f0be1e11e37f627a5a85 aba707dbfb7678d6c1a53eefeb959b7d4642fcb&pagetype=6)

1911 census entry for William H Keevil and family on Findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1911&uir=520e5cfe4e6b5be9b359cd58091457eb&lineNo=1&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=571341cfa5c8460996de603eaed6256feea0b491d b03610a58ec0160d6411bc75e5f8418f19b5123&pagetype=6)

Alex visited the National Media Museum in Bradford to meet a photographic historian and learn about magic lantern slides and studio photographers.

She then visited the Royal Engineers' HQ in Kent to meet a military historian. William's service papers were among those destroyed in WW2, but the medal index card shows that he joined the army in Feb 1915 and was in the 3rd London Field Company and his death certificate shows that he was in the 5th Field Survey Company when he died. This unit used "sound ranging" photographic equipment. A book about the Sound Rangers, and the unit's War Diary, both mentioned the death of Sapper Keevil.



Alex then visited the Jewish Museum in London to meet a researcher who had traced the family tree back from Mitty's mother Helen Sophia Morey. Her mother was Sophie Braham. Sophie's parents were Michael Braham who died in 1827, and his wife Elizabeth. She had two sisters, Frances and Eve, and a brother Lewis. Elizabeth was widowed in 1827 with four children under 10. The marriage certificate from Eve's wedding to Lawrence Emmanuel, a rag merchant, the son of Uzziel Emmanuel, also a rag merchant, shows that they had a Jewish wedding, so it appears that the Braham family were Jewish.

The researcher found a newspaper report about Lewis Braham which said that he had borrowed £40 and not paid it back.



The 1851 census shows Elizabeth at 9 Shepherd Street, Hanover Square, Westminster. She is the head of household, occupation lodging house keeper,with her daughter Sophia and two grandchildren.

link to 1851 census entry on Findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1851&uir=fb6cf1fccf5270c9f9643fa6d45579f7&lineNo=1&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=b7118735cc23789496de603eaed6256feea0b491d b03610a58ec0160d6411bc75e5f8418f19b5123&pagetype=6&_zga_s=1)

Most of the houses on that street (now renamed Dering Street) were lodging houses with female heads of household, and it seems that they were "houses of ill repute". The researcher found newspaper reports about a suspicious death in 1852 at 9 Shepherd Street, which is described as aa "house of ill fame". The man who died was James Fain age 19.

Alex visited Westminster Abbey to look at the records of the inquest, which was held on the 15th Nov 1852. One of the witnesses was a Mary Ann Dalton, known as "Polka Poll". The inquest verdict was that James Fain killed himself by poison while insane.

Elizabeth had been charged with keeping a house of ill fame in 1827, the Sidney Hotel, Leicester Street, Leicester Fields. Alex read a copy of the indictment which showed that Elizabeth pled not guilty but was found guilty. There was no record of her sentence or fine.

Alex then met another historian who showed her the 1861 census entry where Elizabeth was living in Northumberland Street in Marylebone, occupation freeholder, with her granddaughter Rosa Matilda, Lewis's daughter.
1861 census entry on findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1861&uir=65a23d376cb240b61320497551ac09f5&lineNo=8&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=a22fc9c7d6f3b3502b5f2cb91701baeaa767837dd 8d3411669660227baa6653c3dc2b79b5a83b870&pagetype=6)

The 1871 census showed Elizabeth at 8 Titchfield Terrace, St Johns Wood, with Lewis, a financial agent, and Rosa age 20.
1871 census entry on findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1871&uir=2001e3b3d6f27fa4&lineNo=9&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=06693cc91447dfb37c9f2fc20c9ecb8f4c4742111 11794ce301125d4ff5f99699ab00bad84ce37d5&pagetype=6)

Elizabeth died at the age of 84 and Alex looked at her will. She left her household furnishings etc to Lewis, her jewellery to Rosa, and also her freehold houses nos 1 and 4 Wade Street, Poplar, to Rosa. She also owned numbers 52, 54, 56 and 58 Cochrane St, St Johns Wood, and 8 Titchfield Terrace, but they didn't read out the part of the will stating what happened to those houses.

[Shona]

Loved it. An entertaining episode. Would have liked to have see her tell her dad about the Jewish roots - and all about Elizabeth. A minor gripe, though.

[kiterunner]

If anyone can post up links to the census entries, it would be greatly appreciated! I still haven't got my ancestry sub sorted out!

[Olde Crone]

I quite enjoyed this one but (perhaps I'm being a bit prissy) thought her amused reaction to the discovery that Elizabeth was a brothel keeper was a bit shallow. She seemed to think this made Elizabeth a marvellous woman.

I don't deny that she was strong and a survivor, but at what cost to the women who used her premises? Prostitutes generally had a very short life and let's not forget that many prostitutes were children. This was definitely glossed over and she was made to seem a clever entrepreneur.

OC

[kiterunner]

Yes, and her young granddaughters were living with her at 9 Shepherd Street!

[kiterunner]

They didn't mention whether Elizabeth left anything to her three daughters, did they?

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

L enjoyed it but was shouting at the tele when it was automatically assumed that Rosa was Lewis's daughter because she had the same surname! Hadn't they heard of unmarried mothers?

[kiterunner]

I thought the same, Lynn. They didn't say who was the parent of the two grandchildren on the earlier census, did they? Edit - found it and they have a different surname from her and are children of one of her married daughters, so not to worry!

[kiterunner]

Hmmm, doesn't the 1871 census entry say Lewis is unmarried?

findmypast 1871 entry (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1871&uir=2001e3b3d6f27fa4&lineNo=9&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=06693cc91447dfb37c9f2fc20c9ecb8f4c4742111 11794ce301125d4ff5f99699ab00bad84ce37d5&pagetype=6)

[kiterunner]

This looks like Lewis in 1861; he is Son of head of household but the head isn't there, so I'm guessing this was another of Elizabeth's properties. And Lewis is unmarried on this one:
Lewis Braham in 1861? Findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1861&uir=29749e8b1cf16a819381211674dfca04&lineNo=24&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=dc86522b744121a6e879a1cff87e9b6da767837dd 8d3411669660227baa6653c3dc2b79b5a83b870&pagetype=6#)

[Olde Crone]

I also wondered how they knew that Rosa LIVED with her grandmother and wasn't just staying the night!

OC

[kiterunner]

In 1851 Rosa is a visitor with a family called Fisher:
Rosa Braham in 1851 findmypast (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1851&uir=be69a9ed71e7ffb7ecd94119a4f14ad0&lineNo=4&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=8ce5996237443ab196de603eaed6256feea0b491d b03610a58ec0160d6411bc75e5f8418f19b5123&pagetype=6)

[Olde Crone]

There is a possible marriage in 1848 for LOUIS Braham, choice of brides, but Adelaide Jacob looks promising.

OC

[kiterunner]

I did notice another Louis Braham on the censuses so that could be him.

[Olde Crone]

May or may not be significant?

Marriage
Frances Elizabeth Ann Braham to John James Waldegrave June 1839 Kensington

then

Birth

Frances Waldegrave Braham Sept 1843 Blean 5 36

Family connection, surely?

Eve m 1847

OC

[Shona]

Like others was curious to find out more about Rosa and Lewis.

Lewis 'intermarried' married Adelaide Joseph - possibly a cousin. He divorced her and then married Bessie Champ in 1872. As the marriage to Adelaide was declared defective, he insisted he was a bachelor. He describes himself as a gentleman when he married Bessie. This may explain why he describes himself as single or unmarried in census records. Was Rosa from Lewis's first marraige?

He died in 1883 at 11 Endsleigh Gardens, leaving an estate valued at £63,479. Charles Benjamin Graham - formerly Braham - of 44 Gloucester Gardens, Hyde Park, the son of the other executor.

The records are on Ancestry. Having probs posting links.

[kiterunner]

That's interesting, Shona.

[Shona]

Here's the link to Lewis's personal appeal to the Diocese of London to be regarded as single following his divorce from Adelaide, so that he could marry Bessie in church.

He married Adelaide in 1848 and divorced in 1859. That rules out Adelaide as Rosa's mum.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2056&iid=32515_1831101456_0101-00121&fn=Adelaide&ln=Braham&st=d&ssrc=&pid=648539

[kiterunner]

Rosa is 6 months old on the 1851 census, so why couldn't Adelaide be her mother? :confused:

Birth registered Oct-Dec 1850 Westminster, name on index is Rosetta Matilda Braham.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

I think they probably knew from research that he was her father, it was the apprent assumption that he "had" to be her father as they had the same name, that got me.
I don't understand the reason for divorce, was does it mean by "intermarried"?

[Shona]

Rosa is 6 months old on the 1851 census, so why couldn't Adelaide be her mother? :confused:

Birth registered Oct-Dec 1850 Westminster, name on index is Rosetta Matilda Braham.

Doh - I was looking at the 1861 census, when she was 10. Time to get off the smart phone and on to the lap top.

[kiterunner]

I don't understand the reason for divorce, was does it mean by "intermarried"?

Me neither; I thought "intermarried" was just another word for "married".

[Shona]

I think they probably knew from research that he was her father, it was the apprent assumption that he "had" to be her father as they had the same name, that got me.
I don't understand the reason for divorce, was does it mean by "intermarried"?

I may mean he married a relation - possibly a cousin. But it could mean that she was Jewish.

[Shona]

I Googled 'intermarriage' and most hits relate to Jews marrying non-Jews.

[Shona]

1851 Census

37 York Street

Rositta Joseph, 46, head, widow, born London
Adelane Braham, 18, daughter, married, born Strand
G Lammune, 30, lodger, gentleman, born Don't Know
Henry Hernest, 24, unmarried, servant, ditto
Charles Leach, 26, servant, ditto
Baron von Kenly, 35, lodger, married, gentleman, ditto
Baron von Kenly, 32, ditto, ditto, gentleman, ditto
Robert D Blacquoun, 49, ditto, unmarried, gentleman, ditto

[Checking my sums...] Lewis married Adelane/Adelaide when she was about 15.

[anne fraser]

According to the peerage John Henry Waldegrave was the illegitamate son of the vi earl who died in 1841 of deliren tremens.
http://www.thepeerage.com/p1096.htm#i10951

[Ann from Sussex]

I do take OC's point about the misery of anyone who had to earn her living as a prostitute but I didn't feel AK was praising Elizabeth for her business sense so much as her ability to survive and bring up her children alone. Maybe she had no other choices too. Having discovered a twig on my own tree which contains a relative and her husband who ran a "house of ill repute" (a tavern in 18th century London actually but an Old Bailey trial record makes it quite clear what their secondary business was), I know that it does induce a certain amount of hilarity when you first find the evidence.

I wish the whole programme last night had been devoted to the Braham family instead of a good half being taken up with war service....again. I'm beginning to feel the series should be renamed" What Did My Ancestor Do In The War?". I hope we don't get any more.

[Shona]

Perhaps they're going to produce a spin-off with that title.

[Merry]

I haven't watched it yet (as usual!), but I suppose her first reaction to her ancestor's business is just that - a first reaction!

[kiterunner]

1851 Census

37 York Street

Rositta Joseph, 46, head, widow, born London
Adelane Braham, 18, daughter, married, born Strand
G Lammune, 30, lodger, gentleman, born Don't Know
Henry Hernest, 24, unmarried, servant, ditto
Charles Leach, 26, servant, ditto
Baron von Kenly, 35, lodger, married, gentleman, ditto
Baron von Kenly, 32, ditto, ditto, gentleman, ditto
Robert D Blacquoun, 49, ditto, unmarried, gentleman, ditto

[Checking my sums...] Lewis married Adelane/Adelaide when she was about 15.


Ooh, I think that York Street address was where Eve Braham married Lawrence Emmanuel!

[kiterunner]

Perhaps they're going to produce a spin-off with that title.

There was a series along those lines a few years ago - was it for the 90th anniversary of the end of WW1? I wonder whether they will have another one when it is the 100th anniversary of the start or end of the war.

[Shona]

Just had a look at that part of the episode and the street is on the marriage certificate.

[Shona]

Looking at the will entry for Elizabeth Braham on Ancestry.

It says:

Elizabeth Braham

Effects under £1,000. This grant ceased and expired. A will dated 23 January 1873 proved at the Principal Registry January 1874.

16 August 1873. Administration of the effects of the Elizabeth Braham, late of Tichfield-terrace, St John's Wood, who died 22 April 1873 at 8 Tichfield-terrace was granted at the Principal Registry under certain limitations to Samuel Walker of 61 Coleman Street, City of London, auctioneer and surveyor.

Does this mean that Rosa received nothing?

[kiterunner]

Not necessarily.

[kiterunner]

It looks as though Rosa Matilda Braham married an Alfred Good Oct-Dec 1877 Kensington.

This could be them in 1881 at 28 Barrow Hill Rd, Marylebone:
Alfred Good Head Mar 26 Cabman Middlesex St Pancras
Rosa Do Wife 27 Do Kensington
Sophia Do Dau 3 Do Marylebone
Alfred L Do Son 1 Do Do

And in 1891, at the same address, occupying 2 rooms:
Good Alf H(ead) M 32 Cab Driver London St Pancras
Rose Braham W(ife) 36 " Brompton
Sophia D(aughter) 12 Scholar " Marylebone
Alf Geo S(on) 8 " " "
Fr Ch S(on) 4 " " "
Arthur Wm S(on) 2 " " "

So it doesn't look as though she inherited much!

[kiterunner]

In 1901 Alfred is a widower and the youngest child is Albert E age 9. The family are occupying 3 rooms at 5 Belgrave Gardens, Marylebone. Death of Rose Matilda Good Apr-Jun 1895 Marylebone, age given as 40, but I think it must be her.

[kiterunner]

And in 1891 Louis is living in 3 rooms with his wife and two sons, he is living on own means but Bessie is a dressmaker and both the sons have jobs, so it doesn't look as though Louis ended up rich either.

[kiterunner]

From the Standard, 22 Dec 1873:

EMANUEL AND OTHERS V BRAHAM. - In this probate suit, the plaintiffs propounded the will of the late Mrs. Elizabeth Braham, of Tichfield-terrace, Regent's Park, who died on the 22d April last, at the age of eighty-four. The will is dated 20th January, 1873, and is opposed by the defendant, the testatrix's son, on the usual grounds of informal execution, incapacity, and undue influence on the part of the plaintiffs. He also set up another will, dated in January, 1863. - Dr. Tristram and Mr. Inderwick were counsel for the plaintiffs; and Dr. Dean, Q.C., and Mr. R. A. Bayford, for the defendant. - The testatrix was an old lady, the widow of a china and stoneware merchant, who died possessed of freehold property to the extent of some 300l., and of leasehold property to the amount of about 1200l. She had four children, a son and three daughters, the husbands of the latter being the plaintiffs, and the former the defendant, in the cause. By the will the old lady leaves her freehold property to her son's daughter, Rose Braham, gives all her furniture and one of her freehold houses to her father, and a leasehold house to each of her three daughters. The son now opposes the will on the grounds stated, and sets up a will in his favour executed by the testatrix in 1863. It was stated that the son had been divorced from his wife, and had gone to live with another woman, as accounting for his mother's change in the disposition of her property. - The Solicitor who prepared the will and saw it executed, and a number of other witnesses, were called, all of whom spoke as to the perfect competency of the testatrix at the time the will was executed. - The case was not finished at the rising of the Court.

I'll see if I can find the conclusion...can't find any more about it, sorry.

(How can she possibly have left anything to her father if she was 84?! Or is it a roundabout way of saying "her son", i.e. her son's daughter's father? I seem to remember when the will was read out on the programme, the furniture went to her son.)

[kiterunner]

Unseen footage:

http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/13826

[Shona]

From the Standard, 22 Dec 1873:

EMANUEL AND OTHERS V BRAHAM. - In this probate suit, the plaintiffs propounded the will of the late Mrs. Elizabeth Braham, of Tichfield-terrace, Regent's Park, who died on the 22d April last, at the age of eighty-four. The will is dated 20th January, 1873, and is opposed by the defendant, the testatrix's son, on the usual grounds of informal execution, incapacity, and undue influence on the part of the plaintiffs. He also set up another will, dated in January, 1863. - Dr. Tristram and Mr. Inderwick were counsel for the plaintiffs; and Dr. Dean, Q.C., and Mr. R. A. Bayford, for the defendant. - The testatrix was an old lady, the widow of a china and stoneware merchant, who died possessed of freehold property to the extent of some 300l., and of leasehold property to the amount of about 1200l. She had four children, a son and three daughters, the husbands of the latter being the plaintiffs, and the former the defendant, in the cause. By the will the old lady leaves her freehold property to her son's daughter, Rose Braham, gives all her furniture and one of her freehold houses to her father, and a leasehold house to each of her three daughters. The son now opposes the will on the grounds stated, and sets up a will in his favour executed by the testatrix in 1863. It was stated that the son had been divorced from his wife, and had gone to live with another woman, as accounting for his mother's change in the disposition of her property. - The Solicitor who prepared the will and saw it executed, and a number of other witnesses, were called, all of whom spoke as to the perfect competency of the testatrix at the time the will was executed. - The case was not finished at the rising of the Court.

I'll see if I can find the conclusion...can't find any more about it, sorry.

(How can she possibly have left anything to her father if she was 84?! Or is it a roundabout way of saying "her son", i.e. her son's daughter's father? I seem to remember when the will was read out on the programme, the furniture went to her son.)

Fascinating! I agree that it's Rosa's father.

Reading the parts of the will they didn't highlight in the episide, 52 Cochrane Street was left to Louis B, 58 to Frances and her husband Silvester Saloman, 56 to Sophia Morey. That leaves 54, which I assume must have gone to Eve Emanuel. Rosa is left the two freehold properties in Poplar.

One of he executors has the surname Salomon.

Eve Emanuel died in 1884. Laurence died in 1887.

My earlier note says that Louis Braham died in 1883 and left £63,479.

[Shona]

Ooh, I think that York Street address was where Eve Braham married Lawrence Emmanuel!

The certificate states: 'marriage solemnised, 32 York Street, according to the rights and ceremonies of the Jewish religion.'

Eve's address was 20 King Street.

[Ann from Sussex]

"(How can she possibly have left anything to her father if she was 84?! Or is it a roundabout way of saying "her son", i.e. her son's daughter's father? I seem to remember when the will was read out on the programme, the furniture went to her son.)"

I thought exactly the same and had to read it again to come to the conclusion that it is just clumsily written English. They clearly needed a Gwynne overlooking the work of their reporters before it went to print!

[Ann from Sussex]

There was a series along those lines a few years ago - was it for the 90th anniversary of the end of WW1? I wonder whether they will have another one when it is the 100th anniversary of the start or end of the war.

I'm sure I watched one earlier this year on either Channel 4 or 5 in which celebrities traced their grandfathers' or fathers' war service. Maybe it was a repeat of the one you recall. You never know these days whether you are watching something new or donkey's years old.

[JBee]

Glimpsed that Rosa was the daughter of............. in the Will but doesn't say who her mother was.

Mind you if Louis was such a spendthrift of other people's money then no wonder she didn't leave him any properties.

[Shona]

Forget the earlier reference to the Louis/Lewis Braham leaving £63,000. It's the wrong Braham.

In 1881, Louis was living in his late mother's house at 8 Tichfield Terrace and he's at Regent Square in 1891. By 1901, he's living with one of his sons.

[Olde Crone]

A bit rich that she took the moral high ground because her son was divorced!!!!!!!

Let's face it, no one wakes up one morning and thinks "Oooh, I know what, I'll be a Madam". She obviously had the skills required and to say that she took to it because she had four dependent children is just a bit of whitewash. I might have believed that deperation if she had herself been a prostitute, but she continued this very lucrative trade for very many years after all her children were grown and gone, so she was doing it for money, not for necessity.

I wouldn't be particularly proud of her if she was in my tree.

OC

[kiterunner]

I wonder if we can find out whether her husband left her any money.

[Shona]

1817 and 1818 Lands Rax Records show Michael Braham at 25 New Bedford Court, occupation: glass cutter.

1818 and 1819 Poll Books have him at Bedford Court and a glass cutter. This suggests that he had property rights and money.

The Standard report of 22 December 1873 says that Elizabeth Braham was 'the widow of a china and stoneware merchant'.

[kiterunner]

I just remembered another thing that niggled about the will - they were trying to make out that Elizabeth was clever to think of a way of leaving money to her granddaughter without a husband being able to get his hands on it, but all that stuff about "free from the controul of her husband" etc was just standard wording for any will where anything was left to a woman.

[Olde Crone]

Exactly - and the Will would have been drawn up by a Solicitor anyway, not worded by Elizabeth.

OC

[BarnsleyHistorian]

Hi all

I was looking at Lewis/Louis's other children in the 1881 census.
Edith aged 18
Louis aged 13
Walter aged 11 (that's the one the elder Louis is living with later)

As he didn't marry Bessie until 1872 these children must have been born Champ.

I've found Louis the younger on FreeBMD (probably)
Births Mar 1868
Champ Louis Henry B Marylebone 1a 578

Also Walter
Births Jun 1870
Champ Walter Ernest B Marylebone 1a 576


So he divorces Adelaide but doesn't marry the mother of his children until 1872, odd?

[Olde Crone]

Are they definitely Louis' children then and not just Bessie's?

If they are his children with Bessie then maybe he didn't marry her because he wanted the dispensation to be able to marry her in church (why would that be important to either of them, though? I would have thought a Registry Office wedding would be better than nothing at all!)

OC

[Margaret in Burton]

I've only watched it today.

I knew Shepherd St rang a bell so looked it up on Google maps.

It's where The Mayfair Hotel is, my daughter and I stayed there when she won an award when she worked for Barclays.

Loads of celebs hang out there.

On another note, my 3 x great grandfather was a lodging house keeper...................................should I be worried?

[Shona]

I've only watched it today.

I knew Shepherd St rang a bell so looked it up on Google maps.

It's where The Mayfair Hotel is, my daughter and I stayed there when she won an award when she worked for Barclays.

Loads of celebs hang out there.

On another note, my 3 x great grandfather was a lodging house keeper...................................should I be worried?

If a man was 'keeping house' that would be unusual

[Shona]

1817 and 1818 Lands Rax Records show Michael Braham at 25 New Bedford Court, occupation: glass cutter.

1818 and 1819 Poll Books have him at Bedford Court and a glass cutter. This suggests that he had property rights and money.

The Standard report of 22 December 1873 says that Elizabeth Braham was 'the widow of a china and stoneware merchant'.

Correction - the OH says that Middlesex was a constituency where you were eligible to vote if you had a hearth. There were about 6,000 men eligible to vote at the time MB appears in the Poll Books.

[Shona]

From the Jewish Chronicle:


Dr Evans said: “Alex always wondered whether there was any Jewish heritage or origin in the family’s past. Her maternal grandmother had always suggested there might have been, and we could prove she was right.”
Using material from sources that included the JC archives, Dr Evans was able to trace Ms Kingston’s Ashkenazi relatives back to their arrival in the East End in Georgian times.

The Braham family were members of Duke’s Place Synagogue, built near Aldgate in the late 17th century. Ms Kingston’s great-great-grandmother, Elizabeth, worked in a number of jobs including peddling and running a brothel, before doing well enough to buy property overlooking the newly built London Zoo in north London.

[Rachel A]

I loved the look on her face when she discovered what they were up to at the lodging house! :d Although I kind of guessed a minute or so earlier when I saw the occupations of lodging house keeper and dressmakers in the same house... :D

[Margaret in Burton]

If a man was 'keeping house' that would be unusual

He may have been a pimp!

:D:D:D:D:D

[Shona]

He may have been a pimp!

:D:D:D:D:D

Ooh-er, missus!

[Ann from Sussex]

"Having discovered a twig on my own tree which contains a relative and her husband who ran a "house of ill repute" (a tavern in 18th century London actually but an Old Bailey trial record makes it quite clear what their secondary business was), I know that it does induce a certain amount of hilarity when you first find the evidence. "

"On another note, my 3 x great grandfather was a lodging house keeper...................................should I be worried?"

"He may have been a pimp!"

My 4x gt grandfather was a lodging house keeper in Limehouse in the East End of London....and he was the husband of the tavern keeper's niece .I already have evidence that my 4xgt grandmother spent time with her aunt and uncle at the tavern so maybe it is a "profession" that ran in my family!

[Margaret in Burton]

"Having discovered a twig on my own tree which contains a relative and her husband who ran a "house of ill repute" (a tavern in 18th century London actually but an Old Bailey trial record makes it quite clear what their secondary business was), I know that it does induce a certain amount of hilarity when you first find the evidence. "

"On another note, my 3 x great grandfather was a lodging house keeper...................................should I be worried?"

"He may have been a pimp!"

My 4x gt grandfather was a lodging house keeper in Limehouse in the East End of London....and he was the husband of the tavern keeper's niece .I already have evidence that my 4xgt grandmother spent time with her aunt and uncle at the tavern so maybe it is a "profession" that ran in my family!

One daughter was a milliner, does that have the same *nudge nudge wink wink* as a dressmaker?

[Ann from Sussex]

And there were many dressmakers and shirtmakers in later generations of the particular family I'm talking about!!!!

[Olde Crone]

Marg

I believe that "Milliner" was sometimes used as a euphemism for the mistress of a rich man - he would set her up in a little hat shop, lol.

My Auntie Jessie was a milliner and a more proper, respectable spinster you could not have met!

OC

[Merry]

Whilst watching last week's episode yesterday I suddenly realised I hadn't watched this one either!

I really enjoyed it - there were a few small niggles, like them apparently assuming Rosa was Louis's daughter etc, but other than that and a couple of other minor things I thought it was really interesting. Loved her face whn she realised Elizabeth Braham's occ, but Alex is an actress so I kept thinking we might have missed them saying "take two" etc!

I did find the WW1 info interesting as I knew nothing about the work some companies of Royal Engineers did. The historian who told her about it (slightly shaggy grey-haired chap with a moustache) reminded me of someone else on the TV, but I couldn't place him!

[maggie_4_7]

I loved this episode but then I like Alex Kingston.

I thought this one had a lot in and did go some way in FH and yes I have to agree Merry I had no idea about the photo imaging (not sure thats the right phrase) that the Royal Engineers were responsible for to pinpoint the German artillery.

But I have to say the Braham family were more interesting to me because its what I regard as FH rather than minute details about WWII or WWI if its pertinent to the subject then thats okay but they go into to much depth and detail I think.