View Full Version : Puzzle
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 08:16
My friends tree again.
She knows that her maternal grandmother died in 1981.
(married name Ethel Elstone)
Death reg is:
Birth Date: 10 Oct 1901. Death Dec qtr 1981
Registration district: Lichfield, Staffordshire
Volume: 30 Page: 0814
Friend was also told that her grandmother was born in Paddington.
Ethel's marriage:
William J Elstone to Ethel C Hobbs in Kensington. Sept qtr 1925 1a 499
Birth reg is a problem:
The only birth I can find is in Paddington. March qtr 1897 1a 27
1901 census
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=OXFRG13_1372_1374-0306&fn=Ethel&ln=Hobbs&st=d&ssrc=&pid=7960917
That gives her age at 4 which fits with the 1897 birth.
1911 census mother has remarried, I have found her fathers death.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_08080_0009_03/51730530?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsln%3dlu ker%26f2%3dOxfordshire%26rs_81004011__date%3d0%26p rox%3d1%26db%3d1911england%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0 %26gss%3drfs%26so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Her age is now 8. I know her place of birth has changed but they are still living in Lewknor, Oxfordshire
My thoughts were the first Ethel died between 1901-1903. Now 2nd Ethel born c 1903 so 8 years old on the census.
I can't find anything to confirm that.
Ethel's mother has signed the form, surely she would know that her daughter had aged more than 4 years in 10.
Then there is the apparent lying about her age when they all thought she was born in 1901.............................................. ....
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused:
This looks like the birth reg for Ethel 2
Births Dec 1902
HOBBS Edith Eleanor Thame 3a 939
The marriage ref has middle initial C though. (I didn't look at the page though, just the transcription)
EDIT forget that getting my Ediths and Ethels mixed. lol
ElizabethHerts
16-09-12, 08:34
Marg, we have to be careful here because another Ethel Hobbs was born about the same time:
Name: HOBBS, Ethel Violet
Registration district: Kensington
County: London
Year of registration: 1897
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 1A
Page no: 113
We don't know if the Oxfordshire one is Ethel Clara or Ethel Violet, do we?
Ah, it's Edith not Ethel aged 8 in 1911!!! That's why I typed the 'wrong' name into FreeBMD!
So, I bet Ethel is elsewhere and aged 13/14 ish....
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 08:35
This looks like the birth reg for Ethel 2
Births Dec 1902
HOBBS Edith Eleanor Thame 3a 939
The marriage ref has middle initial C though. (I didn't look at the page though, just the transcription)
EDIT forget that getting my Ediths and Ethels mixed. lol
Now that's the sort of thing I'd do. :D:D:D
ElizabethHerts
16-09-12, 08:36
I've just noted that Mum's name is Clara on the 1901 Census, so it is logical to think that the daughter would be Ethel Clara.
ame: HOBBS, Ethel Clara
Registration district: Paddington
County: London
Year of registration: 1897
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 1A
Page no: 27
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 08:38
Ah, it's Edith not Ethel aged 8 in 1911!!! That's why I typed the 'wrong' name into FreeBMD!
So, I bet Ethel is elsewhere and aged 13/14 ish....
Why didn't I see that? DUH!!!!!
Is this a fat spanner in the works?
We have the potential parent of Ethel C, b Paddington in Thame district in 1911 and then there's this marriage;
Marriages Sep 1924
Hobbs Ethel C Gaskins Thame 3a 2737
which is the year before your friend's ancestor married in London.
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 08:39
Marg, we have to be careful here because another Ethel Hobbs was born about the same time:
Name: HOBBS, Ethel Violet
Registration district: Kensington
County: London
Year of registration: 1897
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 1A
Page no: 113
We don't know if the Oxfordshire one is Ethel Clara or Ethel Violet, do we?
I've just noted that Mum's name is Clara on the 1901 Census, so it is logical to think that the daughter would be Ethel Clara.
ame: HOBBS, Ethel Clara
Registration district: Paddington
County: London
Year of registration: 1897
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 1A
Page no: 27
Yes that was my thought too
ElizabethHerts
16-09-12, 08:40
There is another Ethel Hobbs in 1911:
RG number: RG14
Piece: 6
Reference: RG14PN6 RG78PN1 RD1 SD1 ED6 SN186
Registration District: Paddington
Sub District: Paddington North
Enumeration District: 6
Parish: Paddington
Address: 44 Farrant Street Paddington
County: London
HOBBS, Henry William Head Married M 34 1877 Letterpress Machine Minder London Paddington
HOBBS, Phoebe Wife Married14 years F 34 1877 London Kensol Green
HOBBS, Ethel Daughter F 11 1900 School London Paddington
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 08:40
Is this a fat spanner in the works?
We have the potential parent of Ethel C, b Paddington in Thame district in 1911 and then there's this marriage;
Marriages Sep 1924
Hobbs Ethel C Gaskins Thame 3a 2737
which is the year before your friend's ancestor married in London.
Who did she marry?
"my" Ethel married an Elstone.
and there's a death reg for Ethel Cara Gaskins in 1970 showing dob 24 dec 1896 so I thinkk that's the 1897 birth reg removed from your enquiries! lol
ElizabethHerts
16-09-12, 08:45
Name: HOBBS, Ethel
Registration district: Paddington
County: London
Year of registration: 1902
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 1A
Page no: 8
This is a year later than the Ethel we are looking for.
No C in the name.
Could the death cert. be a year out in the birth? Was it October 1901?
Where is the birth reg. for the Ethel on the 1911 Census? I can see one in Fulham, might be her.
I don't feel as though I'm getting anywhere!
This looks like the one you need:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=31280_197463-00564&fn=Ethel+Charlotte&ln=Hobbs&st=d&ssrc=&pid=3417290
right hand page.....
1911 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_00546_0593_03/1551282?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911England%26so%3d2%26rank%3 d0%26gsfn%3dphil*%26gsln%3dhobbs%26gs1co%3d1%252cA ll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%26sbo%3d0%26ufr%3d0%26w p%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%26pr ox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-b%26o_iid%3d21417%26o_lid%3d21417%26o_sch%3dWeb%2b Property%26offerid%3d0%253a21318%253a0&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
They were living in Paddington in 1901 :)
ElizabethHerts
16-09-12, 08:48
Well done, Merry. The baptisms were my next port of call.
The dob looks like 16th, but I'm saying the vicar's pen slipped!
Can't see the birth reg though......
ElizabethHerts
16-09-12, 08:57
Dad's death:
Name: HOBBS, Philip S
Registration district: Marylebone
County: London
Year of registration: 1912
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death: 41
Volume no: 1A
Page no: 702
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 08:57
Sorry, someone came to the door.
Right.
So, I have the wrong Ethel in 1897?
That baptism is the Ethel who married William J Elstone? (left hand page Merry not right):D:D
lololol!! Sorry, I don't know the difference between left and right!
Yes, I think the older Ethel married in Thame 1924 and yours was called Ethel Charlotte, b Paddington 1901 and married Kensington 1925.
The parents marriage is on Ancestry in 1896 so that's helpful!
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 09:03
The dob looks like 16th, but I'm saying the vicar's pen slipped!
Can't see the birth reg though......
Yes it probably is the 10th which fits exactly with the death reg.
I'm really annoyed at myself for getting this wrong.
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 09:05
I can't see the birth reg either
ElizabethHerts
16-09-12, 09:09
The Augustus Routledge on the 1901 Census with them is Ada's father.
Some nice names to research!
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 12:23
1911 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_00546_0593_03/1551282?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911England%26so%3d2%26rank%3 d0%26gsfn%3dphil*%26gsln%3dhobbs%26gs1co%3d1%252cA ll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%26sbo%3d0%26ufr%3d0%26w p%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%26pr ox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-b%26o_iid%3d21417%26o_lid%3d21417%26o_sch%3dWeb%2b Property%26offerid%3d0%253a21318%253a0&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
They were living in Paddington in 1901 :)
What does it say in columns 11 and 12?
maggie_4_7
16-09-12, 12:33
Ceil (?) Shop column 11
Ceil (?) Man column 12
I'm not sure what Ceil is but it looks like that. Unless its supposed to be Oil and the O is written badly.
In column 10 Personal Occ it says Shop Assistant.
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 12:41
Ceil (?) Shop column 11
Ceil (?) Man column 12
I'm not sure what Ceil is but it looks like that. Unless its supposed to be Oil and the O is written badly.
In column 10 Personal Occ it says Shop Assistant.
Just seen on the 1901 census he's an assistant oilman (whatever that is):d:d
maggie_4_7
16-09-12, 12:48
Just seen on the 1901 census he's an assistant oilman (whatever that is):d:d
Oh it'll be 'Oil' then :D
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 13:17
This family keep changing their names!
Found these baptisms
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=0&f3=&f4=hobbs&sx=&f16=&f17=&rg_f18__date=&rs_f18__date=0&f24=&f19=&f9=phil*&f13=ada&f25=&gskw=&db=lmabirths&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gl=&gss=mp-lmabirths&gst=&so=3
Ada Charlotte becomes Ada Martha. Philip still has the same occupation as Oilman
1901 census children are Louise aged 3, Ada aged 2 and Phillip aged 7 months
1911 census children are Elouisa Maud aged 13, Sidney George aged 10 and of course Ethel aged 9
I can see that Louisa and Elouisa are the same person but is Sidney Augustus the same person as Sidney George? Is he also Phillip?
1911 census says they have had 4 children all still living and if Sidney and Phillip are 2 different people that makes 5
Louisa Maud Hobbs 17 Oct 1897, Philip Sydney Hobbs, Ada Charlotte Hobbs,
Paddington Green St Mary, Westminster
Ada Beatrice Hobbs 16 Oct 1898, Philip Sidney Hobbs, Ada Charlotte Hobbs,
Paddington Green St Mary, Westminster
Sidney Augustus Hobbs 4 Nov 1900, Philip Sidney Hobbs, Ada Marsha Hobbs,
Bryanston Square St Mary, Westminster
Ethel Charlotte Hobbs 5 Mar 1902 Phillyis Sidney Hobbs, Ada Charlotte Hobbs, Paddington Green St Mary, Westminster
Philip is 7 months in 1901 and Sidney A was born 11th Sept 1900, so they must be the same child.
The missing child from 1911, Ada, is in hospital at St Marylebone Infirmary, Rackham Street, North Kensington
Margaret in Burton
16-09-12, 14:49
Louisa Maud Hobbs 17 Oct 1897, Philip Sydney Hobbs, Ada Charlotte Hobbs,
Paddington Green St Mary, Westminster
Ada Beatrice Hobbs 16 Oct 1898, Philip Sidney Hobbs, Ada Charlotte Hobbs,
Paddington Green St Mary, Westminster
Sidney Augustus Hobbs 4 Nov 1900, Philip Sidney Hobbs, Ada Marsha Hobbs,
Bryanston Square St Mary, Westminster
Ethel Charlotte Hobbs 5 Mar 1902 Phillyis Sidney Hobbs, Ada Charlotte Hobbs, Paddington Green St Mary, Westminster
Philip is 7 months in 1901 and Sidney A was born 11th Sept 1900, so they must be the same child.
The missing child from 1911, Ada, is in hospital at St Marylebone Infirmary, Rackham Street, North Kensington
Thank you
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