Richard and Esther Wheeler

[Sue from Southend]

I'm having trouble finding these two after 1861....

Richard Webb Wheeler (b 1834, Shoreditch) marries Esther Castle (b 1833 Shoreditch) 28 Feb 1853, Bethnal Green.

They have three children Richard Charles, Elizabeth and William Robert baptised 1855, 1858 and 1860 respectively, in Bethnal Green. Richard Charles is then baptised again (his age given) in 1862. At no point is Richard senior given as deceased.

In 1861 Esther, described as a lodger, with no marital staus given, is living with her mother Elizabeth Castle and 2 of the children, Elizabeth and Richard in Spitalfields. I think William died in 1860. I cannot find Richard senior anywhere.

In 1871 there is an Esther Wheeler, in Bethnal Green born right time/place with children Elizabeth and Richard but she is married to a Thomas Wheeler born in Essex. A Thomas and Esther Wheeler do appear in 1861 with a daughter Elizabeth ( and lots of other children) born in Essex - is this the same couple? Or did my Esther take up with another man named Wheeler (or did he use her name?)

Richard jnr marries in 1875 and again in 1900 and is traceable but the others seem to vanish. But then I am going round in circles can anyone straighten me out please? :o

[ElizabethHerts]

The other Esther and children seem rather a coincidence given that the names and dobs of the children seem to be the same.

I'm cooking lunch for a visitor at present but I'll try to get back to this, Sue. However, I expect KiteRunner or Merry might have worked their magic by then.

[ElizabethHerts]

I found this death, but the age appears 10 years out. We need a burial.

Name: WHEELER, Esther
Registration district: Shoreditch
County: London
Year of registration: 1891
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death: 68
Volume no: 1C
Page no: 50

[Merry]

I haven't looked at much yet, but was interested to notice 22 Great Pearl Street was the address on the two baps either side of the 1861 census and the census too, so they were not flitting about all over London like mine seem to have done!

I don't think there's anything sinister with Esther not having a marital status (except for being annoying to you!) because of where she is on the page surrounded by children.

I see Richard W Wheeler never died :rolleyes:

[Merry]

I looked for a birth reg/bap for the baby in 1871, Thomas Wheeler aged 1 or possibly 13 months!

The only one I could see that looked possible is:

Births Jun 1870
Wheeler Thomas Bibbey Bethnal Green 1c 303

[Merry]

Hmmm, on the next census (1881) there's Thomas and Esther Bibbey with (amongst others) Thomas Bibbey aged 11, b B Green. Thomas senr was born somewhere other than Chelmsford, but the enumerator did scrawl in Essex after the place name, so .........possibly the same people as in 1871, but it this YOUR people?!!

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7572&path=London.Bethnal+Green.Bethnal+Church.10.25&sid=&gskw=Esther+Bibbey

(and the previous page)

[Sue from Southend]

Merry - I think we have uncovered a potential family scandal!

In 1881 a Thomas and Esther Bibbey are living in Bethnal Green with more children. Esther's aunt, Matilda Stokes married a Thomas Bibbey, b 1825ish in Essex. She remarried in 1887. I don't have Thomas' death - off to check

[Sue from Southend]

Thomas seems to have died in 1887. I don't have Matilda in 1881, I wonder if she was living with second husband, Benjamin Forrester then? Off to check again

[Merry]

Not quite getting what you said, but never mind!

Don't know if this has anything to do with it, but there's a marriage for Thomas George Bibby in 1863 in Finsbury to Esther Belilo (spinster, dau if Israel) and then widow Esther Bibby, dau of Israel Belilo to another??? Thomas Bibby in 1884 ;(

[Sue from Southend]

Yes, she's living with Benjamin and a daughter in Shoreditch.

My mother would be shocked - her family didn't do things like this, lol!

[Merry]

lol Sue!

Are you OK now?

[Sue from Southend]

Sorry Merry - I got a bit excited.:d:d The Thomas Bibby marriages that you found have a different father to the one in my tree so don't spoil my theory!

So to clarify, supposition is that Esther Wheeler, went off with Thomas Bibbey, husband of her husband's (Richard Webb Wheeler) aunt. Her maiden name was Matilda Stokes, Richard's mother was a Mary Ann Stokes. Matilda remarried as soon as Thomas died.

Hope this makes sense. Thanks for all your help, another pair of eyes always works doesn't it?

[Merry]

Hope this makes sense.

Yes it does now, thanks! lol I'm afraid I love a bit of scandal! (it's OK looking back at it, only if it were now I might not appreciate it the same!!)

[Sue from Southend]

I haven't found anything this intriguing with my lot for ages, the only problem now is that I don't quite know how to record it all in my tree :confused:

[Merry]

That will keep you busy then! :cool:

[Uncle John]

I haven't found anything this intriguing with my lot for ages, the only problem now is that I don't quite know how to record it all in my tree :confused:

Just link them together - even if it does end up as a cat's cradle. Then ask FTM what one of the relationships is.

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks UJ. FTM did sort it out for me but I have made loads of explanatory notes too!