Edwin Wall and Fanny

[Phoenix]

Sorry this is so long, but the Wall family is not simple

John Wall m Sarah Cotmore in Lambeth in 1822
Henry Wall m Ann Cotmore in Lambeth in 1826

To date there is no proof we can find that John & Henry were brothers. Henry remarried in 1842 as a son of William, but John appears to be a son of John.

No proof either that Ann & Sarah were sisters (Sarah was the daughter of Thomas Grant Cotmore)

But, they had children baptised on the same day in Lambeth and

Edwin Henry Wall was bp 27 April 1834, son of John & Sarah
Edwin John Wall was bp 13 July 1834 son of Henry & Ann

For elimination purposes,
Edwin John was a bricklayer. He married Maria Brassley in 1859. They had sons Edwin John b 1861, Henry Ambrose b 1863, Arthur Thomas b 1867, Albert b 1871 and possibly a daughter Elizabeth. Maria died in 1875 and Edwin John probably in the September quarter of 1882, entered as Edward. He had been paralysed by 1881.

Edwin Henry seems to have had various trades, ages per census and birth places.
1851 aged 17 b St Georges (Southwark) Surrey a Wather(?!) Maker
1861 aged 25 or 28 (unclear image) b St Georges a Gas Fitter (like his father)
1871 aged 35 a gas fitter b Lambeth with wife Fanny aged 32 b Lambeth and Edwin b Lambeth aged 1
1881 aged 49 a leather dealer with wife Fanny aged 40 b Bloomsbury, City, Edwin b Lambeth aged 11 and Thomas b Lambeth aged 6.
Edwin Henry probably died in Southwark Infirmary May 1882 (again as Edward).

I cannot find a marriage of Edwin Henry to Fanny nor birth of Thomas. There is the birth of an Edwin Wall in 1870, but this is in Wandsworth rather than Lambeth or Southwark.

A schools admission register shows an Edwin son of Edwin with a birth date of 12 July 1869, but no trace of this in Freebmd.

If Edwin Henry and Fanny did not marry, children may be registered under the mother's name (which is unknown!)

I have gone to the lengths of checking all the Edwins with births registered in the right quarter. The only ones I cannot trace are Edwin Marsh, Edwin Partrick and Edwin Willing. But there aren't any matching Thomases.

I cannot spot Fanny, Edwin junior or Thomas post 1881.

Can anyone?

[kiterunner]

I think he is a Washer Maker in 1851, if that's any help.

[kiterunner]

There's an Edward Wall age 20 born Lambeth, occupation Printer, a lodger in St George the Martyr, Southwark, in 1891.

[kiterunner]

And a Thos John Wall age 14 born London at "District Shaftesbury Farm School" in Bisley, Surrey, also in 1891. (Shaftesbury Farm School Refuge for Homeless and Destitute Boys.)

[kiterunner]

Possible marriage:

Marriages Jun 1863
BRANNAN Charles St George S. 1d 142
COLLINS Mary Ann St George S 1d 142
GANN Frances St George S. 1d 142
WALL Edwin St George S 1d 142

[kiterunner]

Possible death for Fanny? Jul-Sep 1881 Frances Wall age 42, St Saviour.

[kiterunner]

There is a marriage 28 Feb 1892 at Camberwell between Edward Wall, 22, bachelor, Printer, father Edward Wall, gasfitter, and Caroline Esther Moore, 23, spinster. Witnesses Elizabeth Windle and William Jefferies.
Then this is the family in 1901 at 5 Bonsor St, Camberwell:
Edward H Wall Head M 31 Printer's Assistant London Southwark
Caroline Do Wife M 31 Do Do
Jessie Do Daur 8 Do Do
Edward Do Son 6 Do Newington
Amy Do Daur 5 Do Do
Sidney Do Son 2 Do Camberwell.

[kiterunner]

Possible birth regs for Edwin jr:
Oct-Dec 1869 Wall Edward Henry H, St George Southwark
Jan-Mar 1870 Wall Edward, Lambeth

And 1911 census, still at 5 Bonsor Street:
Edward Hy Wall Head 41 Married Printer's Labourer Blackfriars London
Caroline E Wall 41 Married 19 yrs 4 children 4 living Blackfriars London
Jessie Wall Daughter 18 Single Blackfriars London
Edward Wall Son 16 Single Butcher's Shop Assistant Walworth London
Amy Wall Daughter 15 Single Student Walworth London
Sidney Wall Son 12 Single School Camberwell London.

[Phoenix]

Thanks, Kite!

The marriage you found is between Edwin Wall & Mary Ann Collins. He is an interloper from Hereford and I think she comes from Cambridgeshire and they keep on cropping up to confuse the issue. But it makes entirely good sense that Thomas ends up in a special institution - it's what happened to his cousins.

[kiterunner]

Possible for Thomas in 1901 - Thomas Wall age 24 born London, Lodger, Shoeblack, at the Whittington Club and Chambers & East London Blue Shoeblack Society, Registered Lodging House and Refuge, in Whitechapel.

[Phoenix]

And if there is one thing that drives me mad: any self respecting Edwin was clearly known as Ed or Ted or Ned, so nobody knew what their real names were.

[kiterunner]

Edmunds are just as bad!

[Phoenix]

Don't I know it, Kite! And in Latin they are often all abbreviated to Edus, which is no help at all!

[Margaret in Burton]

My grandad was Edgar and known as Ted

[Merry]

My uncle was Edwin and known as Ted - even his own brother didn't know he wasn't an Edward!

[Olde Crone]

My father was an Edward but his mother called him Teddy, his father called him Eddy. His work colleagues called him Ted and his aunt called him Edwin.

My mother called him Graham.......

OC