Collins help please

[kiterunner]

I'm trying to work out whether a certain couple are mine or not.

This is definitely my relly Henry Farmer on the censuses:

1871:
315 Ebury St., Belgrave, London
Mary Farmer Head Wid 54 Somerset Bath
Hy Do Son Widr 33 Omnibus Conductor Bath
Louisa M Do Gd Daur 2 Middlesex
Rhoda Do Gd Daur 1 Middlesex
Geo S Smith Boarder Unm 44 Banker's Clerk Windsor

1881 census:
33 Westmoreland St., St George Hanover Square, London
Henry Farmer Head Mar 41 Bath Attendant Bath
Elizabeth Farmer Wife Mar 29 Seamstress Hampshire Andover

1891 census:
177 Vauxhall Bridge Road, Westminster
Henry Farmer M 51 Money-taker (shop) Bath
Elizabeth A Do Wife M 39 Upholsterer Hants Andover
Louisa M Do Daur S 22 Seamstress London Pimlico

I haven't been able to find Henry, Elizabeth or Louisa in 1901. Rhoda is with her aunt Kezia Russell in Somerset. There is a possible death for Henry in 1897 in Islington.

I had noted down a likely marriage for Henry and Elizabeth but now the marriage certificate is up on ancestry I can't work out whether it is them or not!
St Mary Lambeth July 13 1879
Henry Farmer age 40, widower, Wood Carver, Carlisle St., father William Charles Farmer, artist.
Elizabeth Ann Collins, 27, spinster, Carlisle St., father James Collins decd, Musician.
Witnesses Thos Nettlefold and Ellen Roberts. I've seen the name Ellen Roberts on St Mary Lambeth marriages before so I think we can ignore her.

My Henry's father was plain William Farmer, a labourer, as far as I know, and I had assumed he died before 1851 as Mary is a widow on the 1851 census. Henry's occupation varies from census to census but he was an Engraver on Wood in 1851. There is an Elizabeth Ann Collins birth registered in Andover in Jun 1852 but I haven't managed to find her in 1861 or 1871 to see if her father was James.

Help please!

[kiterunner]

I've found Henry and Elizabeth in 1911, so forget that possible death in 1897. That means they should be around somewhere in 1901...

1911 St George London
Henry Farmer 74 Bath
Elizabeth Anna Farmer 59 Hampshire

(this is just from the index)

[kiterunner]

I've found them in 1901 but it doesn't really help

94 Rochester Row, St Margaret & St John, Westminster
Henry Farmer Head M 62 Bath Attendant Sommersetshire
Elizabeth " Wife M 49 Upholsterer Wiltshire

[Merry]

I've tried hard to make the marriage belong to a different couple, but it hasn't worked.

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Merry. I think it must be them. I've never managed to find Henry on the 1841 census to see if his father was still alive then, so it could be that his father died when Henry was tiny and he didn't remember him, or of course he could just have been trying to make his family grander than it was.

I found Rhoda jr on the 1911 census at 29 Walcot Street, Bath, age 40, boarder, occupation dressmaker, born London Pimlico. There is a death for her on Bath BMD in 1950, age 80. I also found a likely death for Henry in St George Hanover Square in 1917, age 79, but then last night I found the following entries in the 1912 Bath street directory so I'm confused again!

Holloway
32 Half Moon - Farmer Henry
36 Farmer Miss, dressmaker, res. 32 Holloway.

I couldn't find a Henry Farmer living in Bath on the 1911 census, so I suspect my Henry moved back there soon after census night, but then why is there that death in London? I know I could get the death certificate to see what it says but he's only a first cousin several times removed, so I can't really justify the cost.

[Merry]

Maybe he moved to Bath because his daughter thought he needed to be cared for, but it didn't work out and he went back to London. If he had died in Somerset I would have thought the death would be on FreeBMD by now, so the London death seems very likely.

[kiterunner]

Doesn't seem likely he needed to be cared for if he moved to Bath to run a pub, though?

[Merry]

Maybe not that sort of cared for, or maybe he had to prove he didn't need it?

My great-aunt was 'made' to move to America to be 'looked after ' by her half-sister when she got 'too old to look after herself'. They didn't get on, my great-aunt broke her ankle and said she was going home. She arrived in London with her foot in plaster and got a job doing the books at covent garden veg market, she was 82. She carried on there for five years, living alone and working.

Or perhaps he thought it would be nice to live in Bath where he was born but the business didn't work out and he felt he had to go back to London where there was more paid employment?

[kiterunner]

Yes, could be. Or maybe some relative of his on the Farmer side left him the pub; I haven't had a look to see who ran it before him yet

[kiterunner]

Hmmm, I've found a website of lost Bath pubs which says Henry Farmer ran the pub from 1906 to 1916, which would mean either it isn't my Henry or he had homes in both Bath and London in 1911. The end date fits quite well with the London death, though, and it seems unlikely that Miss Farmer, dressmaker, isn't Rhoda, don't you think?

I don't recognise the names of any of the previous tenants.

[Merry]

He might have been visiting someone when he died.

[kiterunner]

Yes, could be. I wonder what happened to his second wife (Elizabeth Ann).

[Merry]

Might Henry have written a will and would the Probate Index give details of anything useful at that date?

[kiterunner]

I already went and checked that, Merry, as soon as I found that death entry! Nothing.

[Merry]

Yes, could be. I wonder what happened to his second wife (Elizabeth Ann).

I expect one day she died!!

Maybe it would be best to wait until Ancestry have indexed the post 1916 deaths?

[kiterunner]

Probably. I wonder when that'll be? I did have a try on the Bath BMD site and didn't find her on there, but of course if she died in London I would have to either trawl through or wait for ancestry to make it easy.