View Full Version : The mysterious George Excell
I'm working on a very distant twig of my tree and have lost track of someone. I'd ordinarily just move on at this point, but I'm so curious I wondered if anyone here can find him.
George Isaac William Thomas Excell is with his parents George and Mary Ann aged 2 in 1861 as George Wm in Plymouth, born Bristol and aged 13 in 1871 as George W T in Bristol, born Cheltenham. His birth was registered in Clifton in 1859 Q2 and he was baptised in Bristol 10 Apr 1859.
And then he disappears.
There's a probate record from Manchester in 1931 for Excell, George Isaac William Thomas or Farr, Thomas Major and his widow was Mary Ann Excell. There's a death for Mary Ann in 1933 giving an approx year of birth of 1861.
Can anyone find them on any census after 1871 or find anything that sheds light on the apparent alias ?
Many thanks, Rick.
Olde Crone
30-07-12, 20:08
Is this significant?
Thomas Excell to Mary Ann Farr, Dec 1880 Bristol 6a 151
OC
Looks promising OC. Off to dig into that further.
Thank you :-)
Looks like you've found something there. 1881 has Thomas Excell aged 22, born Cheltenham, a currier levanter (?? what's a levanter or am I reading that wrongly) in Bristol with Mary A, 24, born Glastonbury. They are living next door to William and Elizabeth Farr and family, also from Glastonbury.
Just goes to show that fresh eyes are always helpful !
currier
http://www.wordnik.com/words/currier
levanter
http://www.wordnik.com/words/levanter
OK, I get the currier part. But don't know which end to pick up the "levanter" by!
currier
http://www.wordnik.com/words/currier
levanter
http://www.wordnik.com/words/levanter
OK, I get the currier part. But don't know which end to pick up the "levanter" by!
I was fine with currier too, but levanter was new to me. I think it's a way of saying journeyman (which he was).
Got them in 1891 and 1901 now in Northants with lots of children. Many thanks to OC too.
Rick.
Just in case you are not already aware of it, you can check Gloucestershire (but NOT Bristol) BMDs here: http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx This gives the mother's maiden name for all births from 1837, and it seems that the maiden name of the mother of Thomas (whose marriage OC found) was Mayo. Also James Excell married Sarah Mayo in Cheltenham (St Mary's church) in 1847.
scuda
I have read this thread a thousand times (well, it feel that way!!) and I still don't see how anything is solved?
Might it be likely the Mary Ann Excell death in 1933 is the wife of Thomas Excell?
Rick, were you thinking Thomas and GIWT Excell were the same person? There are two birth registrations....
Births Sep 1858
Excell Thomas Cheltenham 6a 338
Births Jun 1859
EXCELL George Isaac William Thomas Clifton 6a 106
Might it be likely the Mary Ann Excell death in 1933 is the wife of Thomas Excell?
OK, so as she died in Manchester that's why she should be the wife of GIWT.
*still confused* :o
I still can't find this:
aged 13 in 1871 as George W T in Bristol, born Cheltenham.
Ancestry has him as George W J, born Chilleden, Glamorgan
scuda
Thanks Scuda, I'd just realised Rick's is the FMP transcription!
Thanks Scuda, I'd just realised Rick's is the FMP transcription!
Which is correct - and it seems odd to put in George's birthplace as Cheltenham if he was really born in Bristol like the others in the family.
scuda
I agree. Quite a few of the details don't match well.
In 1881 Robert H Excell, bro of the supposed Cheltenham born George is living with his mother, but she is now Mrs Graham:
Marriages Mar 1878
COOMBS Caroline Bristol 6a 125
Excell Mary Ann E Bristol 6a 125 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
GRAHAM John Bristol 6a 125 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
RICHARDS George Bristol 6a 125
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=GLSRG11_2471_2475-0240&fn=Robert&ln=Excell&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5922173
I also see she at the marriage now has three first names and those were the initials for her daughter back in 1861 where we have the right George for definite!
Dad George changes his birth place between Wotton under Edge and Cheltenham. Those are not close either. Occ is good, age for both parents are a little out. What happened to Mary Ann b 1857?
Dad George changes his birth place between Wotton under Edge and Cheltenham. Those are not close either.
True, but they're closer than Bristol and Cheltenham!
I should think father's baptism was on 13th June 1830 at Wotton under Edge: George Excell, parents Isaac & Ann (Isaac was a clothworker)
scuda
I see James the father of the Thomas found by OC, was also born in Wotton under Edge, and had a son Isaac. This suggests a connection, but I can't find James' baptism to confirm it.
scuda
Got it - James Exell, son of Isaac and Ann (Isaac was a spinner) baptised at North Nibley on 30th June 1822
scuda
OK so Mary who married John Graham is the right one? I saw a Clara A Excell aged 10 b Cheltenham (!!) in 1881 who was a niece to someone Excell on the next census. Don't have time to see if her uncle is the right man's brother.......(or if she's the right Clara!)
There's a probate record from Manchester in 1931 for Excell, George Isaac William Thomas or Farr, Thomas Major and his widow was Mary Ann Excell.
Be careful, it states that Mary Ann Excell is a widow, it does not state that she is George's widow (although she could well be, of course)
scuda
Yes, I thought that.
Haven't been able to find anything ref to Thomas Major Farr as yet.
I'm posting this from work during my lunchbreak and so don't have access to all my information, but.....
If you look on 1881 there are two Thomas Excells born Cheltenham. One is married to Mary A and I think he is really George Isaac William Thomas. The other is married to Selina and I think he is the son of James and Sara (Mayo). The latter dies in Cheltenham in 1926.
Thanks for everyone's replies to date !
Rick.
Oh good, that makes more sense!
Oh good, that makes more sense!
You had me doubting myself for a mo !!
I'm also not completely sure I've followed his father correctly as there are several George Excells of a similar age and two were born in Wotton under Edge.
Mine was born 1832 to Thomas and Ann and is with them in 1841 and 51. They move to Leckhampton and then Cheltenham, so I guess that's why George sometimes puts that as his place of birth.
They move to Leckhampton and then Cheltenham, so I guess that's why George sometimes puts that as his place of birth.
Reply With Quote
Fine, but in 1871 it is very unlikely to have been George himself who gave the information, but one of his parents. Presumably they knew he wasn't born in Bristol or they wouldn't have made a point of giving that information. Of course, I suppose it's feasible that he was born in Cheltenham but the birth was't registered until they were in Bristol.
scuda
Fine, but in 1871 it is very unlikely to have been George himself who gave the information, but one of his parents. Presumably they knew he wasn't born in Bristol or they wouldn't have made a point of giving that information. Of course, I suppose it's feasible that he was born in Cheltenham but the birth was't registered until they were in Bristol.
scuda
Point taken although I was referring to George senior, who is down as born Cheltenham in 1861 even though he's from WUE.
So at the risk of getting sidetracked, here's my logic getting to GIWT Excell in the first place. I'm trying to avoid getting certs as this is well off my main tree and I'm looking for reasons my theory may be wrong, so all opinions welcome:
Ann Jobbins married Thomas Excell in WUE in 1826. There are no baptism records online for their children, almost certainly because Ann was a baptist.
In 1841 they are in Leckhampton and George (senior) is 10, born in the county and a shoemaker
In 1851 they are in Cheltenham and George is 19, born WUE and a shoemaker.
Other Georges of a similar age are:
Isaac and Ann's son. He's the gasman on the 1851 married to Charlotte (Spencer) according to online trees. Not sure what happens to them.
James and Mary Ann's son. He's with his sister Maria in 1841 and marries Harriet Wheeler in 1852 in Bristol (IGI - son of James). He is a nailmaker and moves to Bedminster.
George son of Charles, who marries Betsey Hoskins in 1857 in Bristol (IGI). He is a labourer in the iron works and Betsey is Elizabeth on the census. They are living with Hoskins in 1861.
So I'm fairly confident if you look at 1861 that the shoemaker in Plymouth is the son of Thomas and Ann. His age and place of birth are wrong, but once you get to 1871 in Bristol they are correct again. George junior - GIWT is with him on both censuses and that's where we came in.
Can anyone spot any flaws with that ?
Thanks, Rick.
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