Another family causing trouble

[Merry]

Research for a friend so nothing added to BK6 from this thread

There's this Phillips family in 1871 and 1881, below. I'm trying to find any them before or after, or the husband in 1881 as Mrs P says she is married, not a widow.

I have only found a baptism for son George (22nd March 1868, St Saviour, Camden), but none of the others.

1871:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_209_211-0395&fn=George&ln=Phillips&st=r&ssrc=&pid=27434403

1881:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7572&path=London.St+Pancras.Regents+Park.18a.23&sid=&gskw=Elizabeth+Phillips

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

[vallee]

wonder if this is him in the
Central London Sick Asylum Highgate Infirmary, St Pancras
RG11 224 103 11
says born 1844

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&gsfn=&gsln=&sx=&f1=&f2=&f3=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f29=&_82004011=&_82004013=&_82004014=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=224&f8=103&f9=11&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1881&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=16&h=14121682&recoff=&fsk=CIAAHZQAkXdX&bsk=&pgoff=1

[Merry]

Might be, Vallee - I did wonder if Byford should be Byfeet, but that did't help. His birthplace might easily be wrong if he was in hospital.

[Merry]

Ah-ha!

1891:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=LNDRG12_120_122-0013&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Phillips&st=d&ssrc=&pid=7729158

I really wanted to find the 1861 though.....

[Merry]

This looks likely for 1851:


http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=MDXHO107_1513_1513-0351&fn=George&ln=Phillips&st=d&ssrc=&pid=2721526

I guess it's very possible George didn't marry Elizabeth until later than 1861 and therefore after the birth of Elizabeth jr, who is the person I am most interested in.

[kiterunner]

We can rule out the George Phillips / Elizabeth Sealby marriage in 1862 in Pancras as he was a cheesemonger with father John Phillips, a florist.

[Merry]

Thanks Kate.

[Joy Dean]

There's this Phillips family in 1871 and 1881, below. I'm trying to find any them before or after, or the husband in 1881 as Mrs P says she is married, not a widow.

I have only found a baptism for son George (22nd March 1868, St Saviour, Camden), but none of the others.

1871:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_209_211-0395&fn=George&ln=Phillips&st=r&ssrc=&pid=27434403

1881:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7572&path=London.St+Pancras.Regents+Park.18a.23&sid=&gskw=Elizabeth+Phillips

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)


My great-great-granny said she was married in a census, but she was a widow.:)

[Merry]

Well in this case George was back wiith her in 1891 (post #4), so he clearly was alive :)

I'm now very sure he was born in 1842 in Byfleet as I've seen his baptism and birth reg. It's the 1861 census I really need, but I can't yet find any of the 1851 family on it.

[Phoenix]

Occupations all wrong, but there's this is 1861: RG09 piece 2164 folio 61 page 16

[Merry]

Oooh, I think I looked at that one and dismissed it because I'd only just started looking and thought I'd find a better one, but never did!!

Very possible - and, if that is the right family, George isn't married, so that would mean the child Elizabeth b abt 1860 isn't going to be a Phillips.

Hmmmmm.......thanks Phoenix!

I'm not here the rest of today unti late, so hopefully you will have it all sorted out by then :D

[Merry]

How far apart are Camberwell and Byfleet?

[Langley Vale Sue]

How far apart are Camberwell and Byfleet?

About 20 - 25 miles at a guess.

Not a bad guess - AA route planner says 22.5 miles!:D :D

[Asa]

That's interesting, Phoenix - I did see this on familysearch and discounted it but maybe it's worth looking at?

George Phillips

England, Marriages, 1538–1973

birth: 1844
marriage: 21 Aug 1864 St. Andrew,? Bordesley,? Warwick,? England

parents: George Phillips
spouse: Elizabeth Moland

groom's name: George Phillips
groom's birth date: 1844
groom's age: 20
bride's name: Elizabeth Moland
bride's birth date: 1845
bride's age: 19
marriage date: 21 Aug 1864
marriage place: St. Andrew, Bordesley, Warwick, England
groom's father's name: George Phillips
bride's father's name: Richard Moland
groom's marital status: Single

[kiterunner]

No, I've found that 1861 family in 1851 and it is a different family from the one you're looking for:

piece 1466, folio 275, page 51.

I suppose you could get the birth certificate for the George born 1868 Pancras to get his mother's maiden name and work from there, but there are a few possibles.

[Phoenix]

There is a George Phillips marrying Eliza Sharland Mar 1860, Marylebone. Off to see if that is more suitable.

[Merry]

I suppose you could get the birth certificate for the George born 1868 Pancras to get his mother's maiden name and work from there, but there are a few possibles.

The trouble is, all I was trying to do was eliminate candidates for the 'wife' of James Stead who appears on my other recent thread.

Mrs Eliza/Elizabeth Stead (mostly Elizabeth) was b about 1859 in Marylebone according to the 1891 census. We have birth certs for her four children all of which say mmn Phillips. (b 1889-1894) The last child was baptised as Phillips six months after her birth was registered as Stead. Also the birth was at an ordinary address, but the baptism was from the workhouse.

After that 'Mrs' Stead nee Phillips vanished and the four children were 'fostered' at Stewkley, Bucks, using the name Phillips. Family stories suggest mum Eliza(beth) hadn't died, as she did try to contact her eldest child who rejected her. We don't know when this was though, but I would emagine it was at least after 1901 if not later. We know the life stories of three of the four children and they all continued with the name Phillips. We know James Stead (their father) lived until at least 1911 as he is on the census and stated he was umarried.

So, we know very little about Elizabeth Phillips and I personally would give up on locating her without further info as the data from one census doesn't seem enough to go on and we don't even know what name she used later; Stead, Phillips or something else, but sadly I've been challenged to help OH's new contact who has been stuck with her for ages, and now I'm stuck too!!

I started trying to eliminate single women called Elizabeth Phillips who appear on the 1881 census with the right birth details, and this one, the dau of George and Elizabeth, is probably best fit and is also being difficult. Now I know her birth name probably wasn't Phillips I realise I'm not easily going to be able to trace her after 1881 as I don't know what name she married in (if she did marry). I'm wishing I'd never looked now! The lady I'm helping thinks I'll sort out Elizabeth because I found James Stead with his parents etc!!

Maybe I could do with ideas on any other lines of enquiry I (or this contact) could make? I feel the big clue is Stewkley. Why were the four children fostered out to this village which is about 35 miles from where they were living at birth (in Paddington). The children went to two households and I've traced back the families who took them, but no one has an obvious London link. I wonder who paid for their upkeep as four chldren to pay for must have been a fair amount.

I guess I should check to see if any workhouse records survive re the last batism in 1895........*sigh*

Any ideas would be much appreciated. Sorry to have gone on and on!

[Merry]

I've just found this:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=1557&path=Westminster.Paddington.Miscellaneous.Harrow+R oad+Workhouse%3a+Register+of+indoor+poor%2c+1894-1895.125&sid=&gskw=Record+from+London%2c+England%2c+Poor+Law+Rec ords%2c+1517-1973

8 lines- 4 lines from the end is 100% the right people and the second time mum is Eliza not Elizabeth (other time 1891 cesus). I wonder what else there is in these records?

[Merry]

The children went to Ashford School Surrey until mid-1899 at whch point the mother's address was still Paddington W/H and the children were boarded out (to Stewkley?)

[Merry]

I went back to the admission and dischage registers and found more entries for the family up to 1897, but then there's a gap until 1912 :( I had hoped to find the final discharge for Eliza. I hadn't imagined she would have been in the W/H for so long.

[kiterunner]

What happens in 1912?

[Merry]

Sorry, I meant there's a gap in the records until 1912!