View Full Version : Can anyone find this family on Ancestry in 1911?
Mary from Italy
07-07-12, 21:40
This family is perfectly easy to find on the official 1911 site, but I've tried every possible way I can think of, and they're still not coming up on Ancestry (which I need so I can view the image).
The family are George Mason, head, 51, wife Clara 45 and children Elsie 21, George Arthur 18, Ann Eliza 16, William Leonard 7 and Frederick Frank Ernest 4, all living in Leicester.
..........and George as Gearge!!
Mary from Italy
07-07-12, 22:18
Well done Merry, thanks very much :)
Mary from Italy
07-07-12, 22:21
That transcriber really didn't make much of an effort, did they?
As well as messing up half the names, they give George's occupation as "Rotary Frame Hand Out Of Emplgard"...
Mary from Italy
07-07-12, 23:34
Do you fancy having a go at a missing child of this family?
In 1891, George and Clara are living at 67 Friday Street, Leicester, with children Leonard and Elsie and a couple of lodgers. I can't find any sign of Leonard after this, and I'm wondering what happened to him.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=LEIRG12_2535_2536-0163&fn=Leonard&ln=Mason&st=d&ssrc=&pid=21554867
His age looks like 15, but I think the first stroke is just an enumerator's mark, and it's actually 5, which would mean he was born about 1886. However, I can't find a matching birth. George and Clara married in 1888, so I've tried searching under her maiden name (North), but still drawn up blank. Neither George nor Clara was married previously as far as I know.
The nearest possibiliy I can find is Archie Leonard Mason born in the Hinckley RD (George's birthplace) in 1884, but according to various trees on Ancestry he belongs to an entirely different family.
In 1911, Clara says she's been married 22 years and there were 7 children, 2 of which were deceased. This Leonard may well be one of the deceased children, but I can't find a death for him.
I'm not intending to buy any certs for this family as they're not closely related enough, just trying to tie up some loose ends.
There is a Leonard Mason Marries in Leicester in 1891- but that wouldnt be him if he was 5 , but on the other hand, 5 was a bit young to be a tailors apprentice.
In 1911 Clara says she has had seven children, five living, and the five lliving are with her, the eldest being 21-year old Elsie.
However, if you can't find a birth reg then maybe Leonard was b before the marriage and if Clara read the question and answered it correctly it is possiblle he wasn't included in the numbers, though I doubt that if George was his father. So, we need to know when they were married.
If he was a fifteen year old tailor's app in 1891 then surely he can't be their son?!! (either of them)
Is this them?
Marriages Jun 1888
Mason George Smith W Leicester 7a 315
NORTH Clara Leicester 7a 315
Plumtree Elizabeth Leicester 7a 315
Porter Amos Leicester 7a 315
I guess it's possible George Mason listed his household with adults first and then his children, which, if Leonard was jus a boarding apprentice,would put him in between Clara and Elsie. The enumerator may have accidentally made him part of the family.
I'm only saying this as a possibility as I haven't looked very hard for Leonard yet!
There's a Leonard Mars, right sort of age, born Leicester. Unfortunately, he's in the shoe business in 1901, but a bad scribble could have been "tidied up" by an enumerator.
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 13:00
If he was a fifteen year old tailor's app in 1891 then surely he can't be their son?!! (either of them)
Oops, I was going crosseyed looking for him yesterday, and quite forgot about the occupation :)
He certainly can't be Clara's child (she was born in 1865) and unlikely to be George's (he was born in about 1861, and unmarried in 1881 according to the census.
The 1888 marriage is the correct one (at least I think it is, but I don't have the cert).
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 13:21
I did find something that may or may not be relevant (probably not).
In the burial register of the largest cemetery in Leicester, George and Clara are buried with son William Leonard (1903-1920). Thre are no other children buried with them, so I had a look for the two children who died before 1911.
One possibility is Ada Ann Mason, born 1893 and died at 3 weeks old in Friday Street, which is the road where Clara and George were living in 1891.
Another child buried in the same plot with Ada is Walter Leonard Mason, who died in 1897 aged 2 months, but the address is Walting Street. There are 4 other children with two different surnames (Brown and Varnham) in the plot, 3 of them from Watling Street, so I would guess that these two Masons aren't related to George and Clara.
EDIT: just noticed that there was a Varnam boarding with George and Clara in 1891, so I shall have to rethink how they're all related.
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 13:35
The other odd thing is that George consistently gives his birth place as Hinckley, Leics, around 1860-61 on the censuses, and his burial in 1920 gives his age as 60; however, the only likely birth I've found for George Smith W Mason (his name on marriage) is in 1866, which would make him the same age as Clara. And that birth is in the Leicester RD, which doesn't include Hinckley.
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 14:46
I've found the Varnham family living in Watling Street in 1901; the husband is the William Varnam b. 1873 who was lodging with George and Clara Mason in 1891. He married a Florence Brown (born c. 1872) in 1893, which explains why there are Varnam and Brown children in the same grave, but I haven't found a family connection to the Masons yet, although I would expect to find one.
The burials in the same grave are as follows in chronological order:
1869: Ada Florence Brown aged 17 months of Watling Street, possibly the sister of Florence Brown.
1871: Frank Ernest Brown aged 9 months of Watling Street, possibly the brother of Florence Brown.
1893: Ada Ann Mason aged 3 weeks of Friday Street, possibly the child of George and Clara Mason.
1896: Samuel Varnam aged 1 day of Watling Street, possibly the child of William Varnam 1873 and his wife Florence née Brown.
1897: Walter Leonard Mason aged 2 months of Watling Street, possibly the child of George and Clara Mason.
1925: Ivy Varnam aged 22 months of Crane Street; the birth shows her mmn as Beaven, which makes her the probable child of William Varnam born c. 1895 (son of William and Florence), and his wife Mariam Beaven.
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 15:50
Not quite sure if any of this information is going to be useful, but you never know, so I'll make a note of what I find here in case it comes in useful in future.
Florence Brown's mother was Eliza, who was widowed by 1881. She remarried to a John Fletcher in late 1881. Eliza and family are at 15 Watling Street in 1881, 1891 and 1901, and the Varnams are just down the road at no. 7 in 1901. Watling Street joins Friday Street, where Clara and George lived in 1901.
Eliza Fletcher formerly Brown née ? died in 1901, and the following people are in the same grave:
1901: Eliza Fletcher, 64, of 15 Watling Street, mother of Florence Brown (wife of William Varnam)
1921: Miriam Varnan, 4, of 15 Crane Street, probably the child of William Varnam and his wife Miriam, and great-granddaughter of Eliza Fletcher (Miriam's sister Ivy who died 3 years later is buried in the Mason/Varnam/Brown grave)
1925: Alfred Hurst, 67, Leicester Royal Infirmary
1935: Annie Eliza Hurst, 72, 152 Willow Street
Annie Brown married Alfred Hurst in Leicester in 1917. Her age at death approximately fits Annie Eliza Brown, daughter of Eliza Fletcher (formerly Brown), who was born c. 1867.
One of my North family married a Hurst, but they weren't closely connected to Clara North, so that may be just a coincidence, although I'll check it out. Otherwise there still seems to be no connection between the Mason/North family and the Varnams and Browns apart from the fact that William Varnam lodged with the Masons.
I haven't taken in the last two posts, but in 1911 George Smith Williams Mason says he has been married to Elizabeth (not Clara) for 22 years and he is aged 44.
So he married Elizabeth Plumtree and this isn't the right marriage for your man?
Marriages Jun 1888
Mason George Smith W Leicester 7a 315
NORTH Clara Leicester 7a 315
Plumtree Elizabeth Leicester 7a 315
Porter Amos Leicester 7a 315
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 16:28
It looks as though there may be a connection between the Norths and the Hursts after all: Clara Mason née North's 2nd cousin once removed Rose Elizabeth North married John Edwin Hurst born Leicester c. 1866, and it looks from the censuses as though he was the brother of the Alfred Hurst born c. 1858 and widowed in 1916 who married Annie Eliza Brown in 1917, although as the names aren't all that unusual I'll need to find a birth or baptism to confirm it.
What about this one instead?
Marriages Dec 1888
BROWN Clara Leicester 7a 405
MASON George Leicester 7a 405
Woolman Fanny Elizabeth Leicester 7a 405
WYE William Leicester 7a 405
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 16:33
Ah, thanks, Merry, I'm afraid that makes a lot more sense; I had noticed that there was a Clara Brown of about the right age, and I was intending to check her out.
I'll try and check out that marriage when I visit the Leics RO this summer, but I suspect that's the George and Clara from Friday Street, because it fits much better with the burials.
So I now need to work out what happened to Clara North.
Didn't Clara North marry Amos Porter?
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 16:37
Yes, sorry, I'm just catching up with the thread. I'd been looking for Elizabeth Plumtree, and hadn't found her.
So back to square one; now off to look for Clara Porter.
1911 - no children after 23 years of marriage.
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 16:41
This is Clara with her father and stepmother and sister Florence/Flora in 1881:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LEIRG11_3164_3167-0200&fn=Clara&ln=North&st=d&ssrc=&pid=12357456
Although her birthplace is given as Leicester, Clara was actually born in Aston, Warwickshire, about 1865, parents John Gregory or Gregory John North and Milley Godwin, who died in 1871.
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 16:42
Thanks, Merry, I'd just drawn a blank in 1891 and 1901, and you beat me to it :)
I dread to think how many other things I've messed up due to not getting certs...
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 16:46
1901
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7814&path=Leicestershire.Leicester+formerly+St+Margaret .North+West+Leicester.26.14
with a daughter Phoebe aged 13
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 17:16
Possible birth for Amos:
Births Dec 1859
PORTER Amos Barrow _a 13_
This looks like his parents' belated marriage, which is interesting bearing in mind that Clara's mother was a Godwin.
Marriages Jun 1854
Godwin Mary Ann Barrow On Soar 7a 260
PORTER Amos Barrow
Amos and parents in 1861:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=LEIRG9_2287_2292-0575&fn=Amos&ln=Porter&st=d&ssrc=&pid=21617053
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 17:17
Phoebe's birth:
Births Jun 1888
PORTER Phoebe Ann Leicester 7a 302
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 17:24
Clara's mother was Milley Godwin, born Rothley, Leicestershire c. 1835 (Barrow on Soar RD), daughter of James and Elizabeth.
She had a probable sister Ann born Rothley c. 1828 (according to the 1841 census), who might well be the Mary Ann (also born Rothley) who married Amos senior, which would make Clara North and Amos junior first cousins.
I think the Rothley baptisms may be on Familysearch, but I can't get it to work today. Anyone else having trouble with it?
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 17:56
Haven't found any of them (Amos, Clara or Phoebe Porter) in 1891 yet.
I've not looked yet. Interesting that they clearly wrote None against Children born alive. Maybe they were bothered that Phoebe seems to have been born before the marriage:
Births Jun 1888
PORTER Phoebe Ann Leicester 7a 302
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 18:04
Unless she was the child of a previous relationship of one of them, but it'd be cutting it a bit fine, as they married in the same quarter as her birth.
Oooh yes, sorry I was looking at the wrong marriage when I said she was born before!
Poor Phoebe Ann is married in 1911 to Joseph Arthur Moore. Perhaps they had disowned her?!
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 18:55
I'd found the marriage:
Marriages Mar 1906
Moore Joseph Arthur Leicester 7a 326
PORTER Phoebe Ann Leicester 7a 326
and it looks like they had zillions of children.
Certainly odd that they didn't acknowledge her in 1911.
kiterunner
08-07-12, 19:03
Maybe they thought it just meant children who were still living at home? Very few people seem to have understood that question fully.
Must be more than one couple, looking at the dates (post 1911)
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 19:08
Certainly more than one; there's a small tree on Ancestry that shows them with loads of children, but obviously I have no idea how reliable it is. They don't have Phoebe's parents, but they have exact dates of birth and death for many of the children, so I'm guessing they have family knowledge.
Mary from Italy
08-07-12, 19:11
Maybe they thought it just meant children who were still living at home? Very few people seem to have understood that question fully.
I guess that's possible. I came across one schedule recently where two grown-up children had been included and then crossed out because they weren't actually living at home.
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