A witness from beyond the grave?

[Mary from Italy]

I was fascinated to find the following wording at the end of the 1506 will of Mauncer Marmyon:

"Thes beryng wytnes, Sir Thomas Jekson parson of the twoe? partes of the churche of Rypynghall my gostly fader John Marmyon gent Richard Everard and many other."

I assumed the testator was referring to his own deceased father (whose name and date of death I don't know).

However the words "my gostly fader" seem to be a quote from an old poem:

http://www.insulaedraconis.org/documents/FlamePeace/Poet1.htm

and the footnotes to that poem suggest that "gostly fader" means a spiritual father or confessor.

The transcription on British history online adds a semi-colon after "fader", which suggests that it refers to the parson, although there's no punctuation in the transcription in secretary hand held by the National Archives.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=53691#s5

How disappointing :)

After Mauncer died, there were interminable lawsuits in Chancery by various members of the family against his widow Edith, so I shall have to try and pay a visit to the National Archives one of these days.

[ElizabethHerts]

Mary, how interesting.

You can request a quote for documents on the National Archives website. I have just requested one for the chancery case Lamb v Cervington.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopying/estimateitems.aspx?requestthis=C+1%2F519&CATID=-2440546&CATLN=7&Itemref=C%201/519/55&ItemScope=&linkback=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalarchives.gov.uk% 2Fcatalogue%2FDisplayCatalogueDetails.asp%3FCATID% 3D-2440546%26CATLN%3D7%26FullDetails%3DTrue

[ElizabethHerts]

This is the reference for the following:
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displayyour-options.asp?requestthis=C+1%2F519&itemref=C+1%2F519%2F55&linkback=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalarchives.gov.uk% 2Fcatalogue%2FDisplayCatalogueDetails.asp%3FCATID% 3D-2440546%26CATLN%3D7%26FullDetails%3DTrue&CATID=-2440546&CATLN=7&FullDetails=True&UserType=0

[Mary from Italy]

Yes, I know you can request a quote; I probably will at some stage, but that kind of document usually costs a fortune.

The document you linked to is actually one of the ones I'm mainly interested in, because I'm directly descended from John Haselwood and his wife Katherine, Maunser Marmion's granddaughter.

[ElizabethHerts]

Oh dear - I suppose I shall have to pay a visit instead! I've never requested a quote before so it will be interesting to see how much it will be.

[Mary from Italy]

I'm afraid you may be appalled :(

However, it takes so long to read these really old documents that I'm not sure that a visit to TNA is ideal.

[Phoenix]

A visit, with a good digital camera, or an onsite request for copies, may be the best solution.

You can get pages with "to the sixteenth interrogatory this deponent saieth nothing"

Usually, the documents are easier to read than wills - except for the fact that they are often a yard wide and two feet deep, with a dozen or more all sewn together. Just don't wear white - they are usually filthy!

[ElizabethHerts]

It makes my order from Neath a few years ago seem like peanuts!

I got countless documents from them re. a chancery case and will involving William Lamb and his wife Susanna (maiden name Evans) - all for the princely sum of £13 something - the cost of the photocopies! I still haven't managed to transcribe them all as there are so many!

[ElizabethHerts]

A visit, with a good digital camera, or an onsite request for copies, may be the best solution.

You can get pages with "to the sixteenth interrogatory this deponent saieth nothing"

Usually, the documents are easier to read than wills - except for the fact that they are often a yard wide and two feet deep, with a dozen or more all sewn together. Just don't wear white - they are usually filthy!


That's a good tip, Phoenix. At least then you have time to peruse at your leisure at home. :D

[Phoenix]

That's a good tip, Phoenix. At least then you have time to peruse at your leisure at home. :D

If you do the copying, make sure your order slip is in shot. My office screen saver is a slide show, and I stare at some of the documents, recognising surnames, but wondering what on earth they are:d

[Kit]

I requested a quote once, the document was 100 pages but I said I wanted it emailed to me, not posted and I told them the name I was looking at. Turns out that only 4 pages were actually relevant to me and the quote was three pounds 50.