View Full Version : Hertfordshire geography??
BK6 updated from this thread
I'm confused. (You probably don't need to read all this waffle, so just cut down to the last bit if you prefer!! lol)
On General I have a thread about my grandparents old neighbours who I thought lived opposite them after WW2 (you don't need to read the thread!).
I know every address my grandparents lived at throughout their lives and at this time (1946-1957) they were at 258 St Margaret's Road, Twickenham, Middlesex, so I assumed it was here that these neighbours lived across the road. However, I've just noticed the address printed on one of their Christmas cards is:
The Clock House
St Margarets,
Ware,
Herts.
That card is dated 1969 (presumably posted to my grandparents as ex-neighbours, as they were living in Oxfordshire by then). There's another card, undated, but with a photo on the children on it, which I would date at about 1955; this card says 'Sunday Morning at The Clock House' on the inside.
I thought The Clock House was at St Margaret's Road, Twickenham! lol
So, I've googled trying to find where The Clock House was/is, with no joy. Wherever it was, that's where they were neighbours (mum always goes on about their beautiful house), but everything else fits (what mum remembers about the family, children's ages etc) with them being neighbours both sides of 1950. Very odd. I have a feeling mum isn't going to be much help with this which is why I'm asking here first!
Addresses my grandparents have lived at in Herts are as follows:
11 High Street, Bengeo, Hertfordshire
1176 Ware Road, Hertford, Hertfordshire
High Street, Broxbourne, Hertfordshire
all of the above before WW2 and before the children in the above family were even born. It's all very perplexing! The children's mother died in 1946 and I'm sure (well, I used to be sure) mum never met her, but knew the second wife who married the widower in 1947.
Confusingly, the third card, is dated 'Xmas 1945' and has a photo taken on VE Day - the photo includes the children's mother who mum 'never met', so why do we have the card if my grandparents didn't know the family by 1945? At Christmas 1945 my grandparents had just moved from Wiltshire, where they had lived for six years, to Chiswick, where they lived for a few months until they moved to St Margaret's Road, Twickenham.
Sorry this is long, but sometimes it helps to write down thoughts (isn't it??).
The actual question:
Where is this house?
The Clock House
St Margarets,
Ware,
Herts.
Is it opposite any of these addresses?
11 High Street, Bengeo, Hertfordshire
1176 Ware Road, Hertford, Hertfordshire
High Street, Broxbourne, Hertfordshire
Anstey Nomad
20-06-12, 12:37
It's not on St Margaret's Road, Stanstead Abbots is it?
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-355889-the-clock-house-9-stanstead-abbots/bingmap
AN
maggie_4_7
20-06-12, 13:23
Could be same one AN posted haven't clicked the link
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-355977-the-clock-house-stanstead-st-margarets
Ahh no a different post code.
Oooh, you have both pushed me to look harder! I had seen the roadside view of that property and dismissed it as 1) my grandparents never lived in that road and 2) the house behind the Victorian wall and bushes looked more pseudo-Tudor than anything else.
However, reading the blurb as follows (from the above links), I think the street-view must be showing the wrong property....
House, formerly a stable block. C18 altered late C19 for
Septimus Croft. Red brick in Flemish bond. Stucco bands. Tiled
roofs, slated on E slope. A 2-storeys, 3-windows rectagular
building facing W. 3-part plan with projecting centre rising to
a squareturret and cupola, flanked by hipped roofed wings. 3
parallel roofs with slated hipped ends on E. Central panelled
door with flat hood on brackets set in a glazed semi-circular
arch. Similar heads to large window on each side with radial
glazing bars and casements. Crown firemark at centre. Stucco
band at springing level. Brick band at floor level. On 1st
floor small central window mullioned and transomed with Gothic
tracery. 4-light windows each side. Stucco capped parapet of
central turret rises above the wings with an octagonal drum
above. Circular window on cardinal faces. Above a cornice a
domed open cupola with closed balustrade, round headed arches
with 'key stones', and a gilded weather vane. The house to which
the stable block belonged is said to have been burnt down in the
late C18. (Pevsner (1977) 344). Rainwaterhead dated 1705 is
said to come from Sherides in Hoddesdon.
I can see in the photos I have that that the following things match:
Red brick, Flemish bond
Stucco bands
Square turret and cupola
Windows on each side of the front door match (ie has glazed semi-circular arch)
The rest can't be seen as my photos are not of the house, but the family!
Well, I think there are too many coincidences for this not to be the right house. So............how on earth were they neighbours?
I must add that my grandmother was definitely having delusions of grandeur, befriending this family. She would have been HORRIFIED had she known they had any connection whatsoever with my grandfather's family (they were distantly related several times over by marriage, for those who haven't read my other thread!) who she liked to imagine were of 'inferior rank' to her own family!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
So, thank you so much Maggie and AN. I will have to try and find out how this friendship came about (and when), though I can't ask questions as mum gets confused if she thinks she is being interrogated.
Mum always says they crossed the road from home to get to The Clock House!! *tears out hair*
Thanks again both.
maggie_4_7
20-06-12, 13:56
Merry
AN and I posted different addresses looking at iPhone pinpoint I think mine is the right one St Margarets next to Ware it looks like a very large house standing alone now from the street view I got.
Key inthe post code from the address on my link.
OK, I have to go out now, so not ignoring! I'll have a look later on......Bye!
Merry
AN and I posted different addresses looking at iPhone pinpoint I think mine is the right one St Margarets next to Ware it looks like a very large house standing alone now from the street view I got.
Key inthe post code from the address on my link.
Did that quickly......Do you mean the yellowish brick house or the stuff hidden by bushes the other side of the road? Must dash..... xx
maggie_4_7
20-06-12, 17:09
This is what I am seeing!
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=SG12+8EQ&hl=en&ll=51.785204,0.000284&spn=0.00083,0.001993&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=6.491479,16.325684&hnear=Stanstead+Abbotts+SG12+8EQ,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.785204,0.000284&panoid=Y_I24xARTDwjFAyj3U1LOQ&cbp=12,80.07,,0,-1.21
... and on the map it says the Clock House, Hoddesdon Road SG12 8EQ
On the post code in AN's post I am getting Yew Tree Cottage in Cappell Lane SG12 8BU
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=SG12+8BU&hl=en&ll=51.789818,0.00919&spn=0.001659,0.003986&sll=51.785204,0.000284&sspn=0.000836,0.001993&hnear=Stanstead+Abbotts+SG12+8BU,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.789818,0.00919&panoid=tCYSImlh4nB6vy-pEfxZfg&cbp=12,79.85,,0,11.99
Having said that I'm not sure Google pin points the exact house!
I think Google usualy manages to within a few house numbers at best!
I think yours is nearer, but I probably have to go up and down the road a bit.
I still can't understand how they were neighbours of my grandparents if they lived in that street?? Very odd.
Ah-ha! I faced the yellow-brick house in your link, Maggie....turned right (ie south) and went a couple of hundred yards down the road, and on the left was .......
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m13/merry_monty_montgomery/TheClockHouse.jpg
So......that is 100% the right place as I have the photos, but how on earth were they ever neighbours of my grandparents and if that's a red herring, how on earth did their paths ever cross at all???? Certainly not socially or via work, so I don't get it at all.
I wouldn't be bothering, but I wanted to joke with mum about being 'related' to her posh friends and that small thing has led to all these questions! I will have to chat to her about them again and see if anything more comes out. How to do that without actually asking her anything, is the key.
When my family lived at 1176 Ware Road they were about a mile by road from The Clock House. Hardly neighbours!
Oh, OH just said to me that apparently mum and these people were across-the-road neighbours when they lived at Broxbourne! First I've heard of that!!! My family were at Broxbourne about 1936-39 - their house was called Sunny Lawn and was on the High Street. I saw it about 20 years ago, but have never been able to find it on Google maps since. Maybe it's been knocked down? Sadly we were inexperienced researchers then and didn't think to pinpoint the house on a map or make a note of what other buildings were around it. :(
Perhaps their neighbours moved to the posh house during the war years?
Uncle John
20-06-12, 20:23
Merry
A bit late on this thread, but by now you will have realised that St. Margarets, Ware, is fairly close to but not the same as Bengeo, Hertford or Hoddesdon. St. Margarets railway station is between Broxbourne and Hertford East.
Somebody's tourist photo:
http://indianapete.phanfare.com/4604270_5078765#imageID=95436707
I will have to chat to her about them again and see if anything more comes out. How to do that without actually asking her anything, is the key.
Let her "catch" you shuffling papers that include this photo and see if that prompts her to ask you questions. :D
Merry
A bit late on this thread, but by now you will have realised that St. Margarets, Ware, is fairly close to but not the same as Bengeo, Hertford or Hoddesdon. St. Margarets railway station is between Broxbourne and Hertford East.
It's gradually sinking in UJ! I'm now wondering how many times 'St Margaret's' has been said by mum and I've assumed the Twickenham one because that's how mum refers to the house they had there - I didn't realise there was a place of the same name in Herts until today :(
Somebody's tourist photo:
http://indianapete.phanfare.com/4604270_5078765#imageID=95436707
No??? Another Clock House??
Let her "catch" you shuffling papers that include this photo and see if that prompts her to ask you questions. :D
Sadly, that won't work as she can't see well enough. It's so frustrating not being able to show her any photos. She can often remember old ones by me describing them, but that only works for the most familiar ones.
If I was to mention the surname of these people to her she would probably say "Who are they?", but if I build up gradually she will most likely remember the names of the children and quite a few other bits and pieces. I just have to remember, "no interrogating"!!
Olde Crone
20-06-12, 21:28
Merry
A trick which often works well, rather than direct questioning, is to throw in an incorrect statement, for example "I've found the birth of their son Freddie in 1927 in Birmingham" (or some such rubbish) whereupon your mother will retort smartly "They never had a son Freddie, they only had a George and three daughters and they were all born in Penge"
OC
lol I will definitely try that technique, OC!
Uncle John
21-06-12, 10:19
"They never had a son Freddie, they only had a George and three daughters and they were all born in Penge"
Not the Penge Bungalow Murders again!!
Olde Crone
21-06-12, 10:31
Oh, lol, UJ, that must have been subliminal!
OC
Well it turns out mum lived opposite these neighbours in 1938-1940 (as H said, in Broxbourne!) and it was when they were in a different house to The Clock House. At first she knew nothing about them at all (who??), but eventually she remembered her mother rushing across the road to tell the neighbour's Norwegian wife that Germany had invaded Norway which reduced the poor woman to tears because she hadn't already heard the news.
This means I now know that my family were still in Broxbourne on 8th April 1940 which was news to me as mum always said they moved out when war was declared! She now realises that wasn't quite correct!
*makes another small adjustment to the tree*
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread :)
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