Nathaniel Hale

[Margaret in Burton]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as

Nathaniel Hale

Transcript of the marriage record spells his name Nathanael

Date and place of birth

Unknown

Names of parents

Unknown

Date and place of baptism - if applicable

Unknown

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any

30 September 1793 in Kingswood, Gloucestershire to Flower Mills (http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=12771)

Occupation(s) - if any

Unknown

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).


Children baptised in Rangeworthy, Gloucestershire

Date, place and cause of death

Unknown

Date and place of burial.

Unknown

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable

Unknown

Memorial inscription - if any

Unknown


Link to daughter: Eliza Hale (http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8365)

[kiterunner]

There was a Robert Hale in Rangeworthy in the 16th century, so maybe your line will turn out to go back to him!
A few generations to fill in yet though...

http://www.bafhs.org.uk/bafhs-parishes/other-bafhs-parishes/163-rangeworthy

[kiterunner]

There is an entry in the Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures on ancestry - Nathl Hale apprentice to Mark Werrett, Rangworthy Co(unty) of Gloucester, felt maker. Date is 2 March 1789. Information about the database says "The dates in the records are for when the tax was paid and may be some years after the apprenticeship, not when it started or finished."

[Margaret in Burton]

I saw a Nathaniel Hale on the 1841 census in Rangeworthy who was a hat maker. I suppose felt maker / hat maker could be the same? Not my Nathaniel as too young but perhaps connected.

I have a feeling that these Hale's are based in Rangeworthy for a long time. I need to spend more time on this.

[Margaret in Burton]

UK Poll Books on Ancestry list Nathaniel in 1833. He had a leasehold house and garden. There is a line through the entry. I assume that means he had died by then.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2410&iid=32969_633870_1356-00142&fn=Nathaniel&ln=Hale&st=d&ssrc=&pid=3141933

[kiterunner]

I don't know, Marg. Could be they crossed the names off when they turned up to vote, like they do nowadays?

[Margaret in Burton]

Found this by Googling but the link won't open

Nathanael Hale, of Rangeworthy, hatter, & Flower Mills, s., lic., 30 Sept. 1793.


Looks like he was a hatter then.

[Margaret in Burton]

I don't know, Marg. Could be they crossed the names off when they turned up to vote, like they do nowadays?

Never thought of that.

[Janet]

Found this by Googling but the link won't open

Nathanael Hale, of Rangeworthy, hatter, & Flower Mills, s., lic., 30 Sept. 1793.


Looks like he was a hatter then.

It opened for me, Marg. There's also a Mary Hale marrying Robert Bolton on 1 Oct. 1798. Looks to me like a widow and widower.

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Kingswood Marriages 1790 to 1799

John Vick & Hester Burroughs, w., 7 Mar. 1790

William Barber, of Charfield, yeoman, & Elizabeth Hopkins, s., lic., 8 Apr. 1790

William Ayers & Ann Summers, 29 Apr. 1790

Thomas Dorney, w., & Rebecca Park, s., lic., 13 July 1790

William Woodward & Catherine Webb, s., 20 July 1790

Thomas Tanner & Sarah Allen, s., 1 Aug. 1790

Thomas Pegler & Mary Partridge, s., 28 Sept. 1790

William Derrett & Hannah Gill, 16 Jan. 1791

Matthias Partridge & Elizabeth Parnell, 24 Apr. 1791

Thomas Smith Wathen, clothier, & Ann Tanner, s., lic., 16 May 1791

John Grey, w., & Mary Cox, s., 23 May 1791

William Watkins & Elizabeth Cousins, s., 14 June 1791

James Lacey, w., & Margaret Reynolds, s., 20 June 1791

Josiah Fernley & Elizabeth Reynolds, 14 Aug. 1791

Alexander Thomas & Elizabeth Beard, s., 29 Jan. 1792

Joseph Kethro & Jane Brown, s., 7 Mar. 1792

Thomas Smyth & Sarah Matthews, s., 1 Apr. 1792

William Curnock & Ann Summers, s., 22 Apr. 1792

John Summers & Sarah Whitmore, s., 22 July 1792

George Weaving, w., & Mary Hitchings, s., 24 Sept. 1792

Thomas Heaven & Hannah Osborne, s., 19 Jan. 1793

William Pearce & Mary Moggeridge, s., 27 Jan. 1793

Henry Portlock & Martha Derrett, 27 Jan. 1793

John Hayden & Mary Morris, w., 11 June 1793

John Cook & Mary Phillips, lic., 18 June 1793

Nathanael Hale, of Rangeworthy, hatter, & Flower Mills, s., lic., 30 Sept. 1793

William Gough, w., & Mary Culverwell, of Stapleton, w., lic., 16 Nov. 1793

Richard Symes, of St. Mary Redcliff, Bristol, & Elizabeth Long, s., lic., 19 Jan. 1794

Joseph Riddiford, w., & Sarah Walker, w., 9 Feb. 1794

Samuel Jenkins & Grace Hutton, s., 22 Feb. 1794

Thomas Jeferies & Susannah Russ, s., 4 May 1794

William Wilcox & Sarah Pope, s., 25 Sept. 1794

John Pool, of Wotton0under-Edge, & Hannah Farmilo, w., lic., 12 July 1795

John Lawrence & Sarah Philpot, 29 Sept. 1795

John Pettygrove & Mary Partridge, 5 Oct. 1795

Samuel Hart & Elizabeth Pearce, 23 Nov. 1795

Thomas Pearce & Elizabeth Millman, 29 Nov. 1795

Robert Crew & Ann Clark, 29 Nov. 1795

William Earl & Elizabeth Derrett, 19 June 1796

John Chappel, w., & Lucy Chappel, s., 25 Dec. 1796

Isaac Heaven & Anne Fry, s., lic., 27 Feb. 1797

Shadrach Wherret, of Wotton-under-Edge, & Ann Chard, s., lic., 21 July 1797

John Sparks & Sarah Jobins, s., 24 July 1797

William Heaven, w., & Elizabeth Bennett, w., 10 Dec. 1797

James Curnock & Jane Tanner, s., 27 May 1798

Elisha Little & Jane Bailey, s., 17 June 1798

Charles Walker & Elizabeth Hancock, s., 19 Aug. 1798

Samuel Partridge & Jane Allen, s., 3 Sept. 1798

Robert Bolton, w., & Mary Hale, w., 1 Oct. 1798

Thomas Reily [? Rily] & Mary Smith, s., 10 Dec. 1798

William Sargent, w., & Mary Morgan, s., 26 Dec. 1798

Robert Gainer & Ann Wherret, w. lic., 31 Dec. 1798

Thomas Mercer & Jane Tanner, s., lic., 26 Feb. 1799

James Tanner & Elizabeth Shepherd, s., 6 Apr. 1799

George Turner & Mary Smith, s., 7 Apr. 1799

Philip Mogridge & Lucretia Perrin, s., 4 Aug. 1799

Nathaniel Stevens, w., & Sarah Vowles, s., 25 Sept. 1799

Daniel Bowyer, of Chipping Sodbury, & Sarah Wilkins, s., 30 Dec. 1799


Source: Gloucestershire Parish Registers. Marriages. Edited by W. P. W. Phillimore, M.A., B.C.L., Vol IX. Issued to the Subscribers by Phillimore & Co., 124, Chancery Lane, London. 1903.

[Margaret in Burton]

Thanks Janet

I just kept getting "can't open on this server"

[Margaret in Burton]

I just wish I could find Nathaniel's (Nathanael's) baptism or burial.

[Janet]

Thanks Janet

I just kept getting "can't open on this server"

Was the one you tried parishmouse.com or parishmouse.co.uk? I just now clicked on one of those "repeat the search with the omitted results included" links and it showed me this one that gives me "404 Not Found" and "was not found on this server." So maybe this is the one for you.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parishmouse.co.uk%2Fglouceste rshire%2Fparishes_k%2Fkingswood%2Ffiles%2FKingswoo d_Marriages_1790_to_1799.html&ei=PWLWT-2BG4i_0AHanLCsAw&usg=AFQjCNHTocvLkYMVxpwXMD8PCflWQi7nkQ

[Margaret in Burton]

Was the one you tried parishmouse.com or parishmouse.co.uk? I just now clicked on one of those "repeat the search with the omitted results included" links and it showed me this one that gives me "404 Not Found" and "was not found on this server." So maybe this is the one for you.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parishmouse.co.uk%2Fglouceste rshire%2Fparishes_k%2Fkingswood%2Ffiles%2FKingswoo d_Marriages_1790_to_1799.html&ei=PWLWT-2BG4i_0AHanLCsAw&usg=AFQjCNHTocvLkYMVxpwXMD8PCflWQi7nkQ

No that doesn't work either, but it doesn't matter. I have the info I need now.

[Janet]

Okey-doke.

[Sue from Southend]

Found this on the Gloucestershire Archives site -
Memorandum of conviction of Nathaniel Hale of Rangeworthy, beer retailer and shopkeeper, for the crime of possessing two defective weights and a defective pair of scales in his shop, dated 9 May 1835 [printed form]
Date 1835

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=10&dsqSearch=%28%28%28text%29%3D%27nathaniel%27%29AND %28%28text%29%3D%27hale%27%29%29

Perhaps he sold hats and beer?? :d

[Sue from Southend]

And still with Gloucestershire Archives a Nathaniel Hale of Rangeworthy appears on the Overseers Records in 1837 and 1838. There may be more details if you contact the Archives.

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Results.aspx

And if you look at the entry dated 1769 it's for a Nathaniel Hale of Kingswood where your one married....


Edit : Flower Hale also has Overseers records in 1838 http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Results.aspx
She would appear to be child. Did they name any of their children Flower or perhaps the Nathaniel in the Overseers records is their son and she's his daughter??

[Margaret in Burton]

And still with Gloucestershire Archives a Nathaniel Hale of Rangeworthy appears on the Overseers Records in 1837 and 1838. There may be more details if you contact the Archives.

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Results.aspx

And if you look at the entry dated 1769 it's for a Nathaniel Hale of Kingswood where your one married....


Edit : Flower Hale also has Overseers records in 1838 http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Results.aspx
She would appear to be child. Did they name any of their children Flower or perhaps the Nathaniel in the Overseers records is their son and she's his daughter??

I don't have children called Nathaniel or Flower but I have very little info concerning that family.
I did email the archives last night to ask about purchasing copy microfiche, I do have a reader, no reply as yet.

Don't want to appear dim, but what are Overseers records?

[Sue from Southend]

This link describes Overseers Records pretty well. It's the second item down.

http://www.hidden-heritage.co.uk/category/poor-law/

Sometimes these sorts of records are a mine of information giving names of parents, place of birth etc. Another time it could just be the bare bones!

[Margaret in Burton]

I've just emailed the Archives to ask about ref P244 OV 3/2/4/31

Both Nathaniel and Flower are named in that and are from Rangeworthy.

Thanks for your help Sue.

[Margaret in Burton]

Had a reply from the archives and have asked for a quote for a copy. This is their email to me.

I can tell you that P244 OV 3/2/4 contains Removal Orders from the parish of Painswick. This means that Nathaniel and Flower were living in Painswick, but were not originally from there. It is likely they were claiming money from the church under the Poor Law, if they were not from that parish originally, they could be sent back to where they came from.

The quote will take up to 10 working days.

Wasn't even 10 hours lol

£6 + £1 P&P

Will be sending off for that.

[Margaret in Burton]

Asked about buying copy microfiche.

Can't supply as they don't have copyright.

OK I understand that but their answer after that is ridiculous.

I am afraid that in the case of the Parish of Rangeworthy permission has not been granted, we do not hold copyright and so are unable to supply duplicate copies of the fiche. We are able to supply a paper copy of an individual BMD entry from these fiche for a charge of £6.00 per entry if the exact date, name and event is supplied. On receipt of a completed order form and remittance, we will conduct a search for the entry on the date supplied by you, but cannot guarantee that this event will be found on that date. The stated fee on the form includes both the time it takes to search for the event and to have one copy produced of the entry. However, if the search is not successful, this fee will cover the search time onl

If I knew the exact dates then why would I need the info from them?


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


I have told that that in a reply email.

[Sue from Southend]

I suspect that they're just covering their backs Marg! I'd have thought that the details you've supplied from their database should be enough.
Were you hoping to browse the Rangeworthy Prs by buying a copy of the fiche? As they can't supply that they're just saying that they won't do it for you! Some Archives will do something like that for an hourly charge with no guarantees but it can work out very expensive.
The Settlement/Removal papers may give you a lot of the information.

[Margaret in Burton]

I suspect that they're just covering their backs Marg! I'd have thought that the details you've supplied from their database should be enough.
Were you hoping to browse the Rangeworthy Prs by buying a copy of the fiche? As they can't supply that they're just saying that they won't do it for you! Some Archives will do something like that for an hourly charge with no guarantees but it can work out very expensive.
The Settlement/Removal papers may give you a lot of the information.

Yes I'm ordering those overseers records.

I asked them about buying copy fiche for the parish registers.

It just annoyed me that they would need the exact date of a baptism, marriage, burial before they could supply me with any info. I wanted to buy the fiche to get that info. If I knew it already then I wouldn't have asked to buy the fiche.

[Phoenix]

Marg, if they are anything like our local archives, they are hugely overstretched, with masses of admin to do and very little time even for cataloguing & conservation.

Now that I have home internet, I'm able to do "proper" research but am finding that some searches which ought to be simple are taking forever: poor quality images, entries not in chronological order etc etc.

The staff are unlikely to be deliberately obstructive (though I have met a few!) just very overworked and unable to spend much time on queries. Our staffing levels are down by 25%, in the whole arts sector over 30 people were made redundant, and those remaining have to take on extra duties.

[Margaret in Burton]

I know that Phoenix but it just seemed such a stupid thing to put.

If they don't have copyright then I can't see the records being online in the future either with Family Search or any other.

I debated writing to the Incumbent at the church to ask why permission hasn't been given.

[Phoenix]

It gets harder as we get older (!) but I usually wait for the incumbents to move on. There are all sorts of reasons for incumbents refusing to allow parish registers to be made generally available - from religious, which I respect, to sheer bloodymindedness, which I don't - but I would imagine that all the counter arguments have already been put to them. Usually the new incumbent is all too glad to rid themselves of unnecessary correspondence

[kiterunner]

Can you order a microfilm to your nearest Family History Centre, Marg?

[Margaret in Burton]

It gets harder as we get older (!) but I usually wait for the incumbents to move on. There are all sorts of reasons for incumbents refusing to allow parish registers to be made generally available - from religious, which I respect, to sheer bloodymindedness, which I don't - but I would imagine that all the counter arguments have already been put to them. Usually the new incumbent is all too glad to rid themselves of unnecessary correspondence


Had a reply from them today suggesting I write to the incumbent to ask his permission. I'll think about it.

Problem being they are only available on microfilm which I could view at Burton library (if the reels are the same and their machine is very old and you have to steady the reel as you try to read it) :(:(:(

Can you order a microfilm to your nearest Family History Centre, Marg?


Nearest one is Lichfield Kate which is difficult to get to. I don't drive and I can't see OH taking me. He's bored with FH these days.

[Margaret in Burton]

Received the removal orders from Gloucester.

They aren't actually about Nathaniel and Eliza but their son Samuel. Loads of info I don't have on him though. Married with 10 kids. Nathaniel and Eliza are mentioned as in Samuel is their son.

I will be searching through this later. Will post on research board if I get stuck.