First World War

[Markkent91]

Hi all, I am researching my Great Great Uncle who was killed in 1918 in Flanders

Sgt Edward Charles Kent
18th Battalion Middlesex Regiment (Duke of Cambridge own)
Died 24th March 1918 of Shell wounds .
Taken to 44th Casualty Clearing Station.
Buried at Nine Elms British War Cemetary, Poperinge, Belgium.
Part of the 33rd Division.

Now then, I already know quite a lot about his life. Born in 1881, lived at 64 Burnt Ash Road, Lee, Kent. ( what is now part of the borough of Lewisham, London) with his brothers and sister and parents Thomas and Maria Kent. Thomas died in 1905 and Maria in 1916 at this address.

Really I am most interested in his Wartime experience

I was able to travel to the National Archives and view his battalions War Diary however I did not have enough time to read through the whole thing.
I recently requested a copy of the Medal Roll in which he is on so I should recieve that soon.
I tried searching for his service records but had no luck so I fear they may of been destroyed in the WW2 bombings.

So really I am asking anyone out there if they can dig up ANY other information about his time in the War.

Please don't tell me the information I already know.

Thanks, Mark.

[kiterunner]

Welcome to the forum, Mark.

I know that you don't want us to tell you stuff you already know, but you haven't given us his army number. Can you confirm whether it is G/10824, please, so we can be sure we are looking at the right person? Army numbers are usually quite important in trying to find information about a soldier.

[kiterunner]

Also, did you know that he left a will? Of course we don't know whether it mentions anything about his time in the army without seeing it. This is the information from the National Probate Calendar for 1918:
KENT Edward Charles of 64 Burnt Ash-road Lee Kent sergeant 18th Middlesex regiment died 24 March 1918 in France. Probate London 26 July to Thomas Kent surveyor. Effects £9398 5s 3d.

You can order a copy of his will for £6:
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wills

[Phoenix]

I think the military forums are probably best placed to help you regarding military experiences.

Would his promotion to sergeant be mentioned in the London Gazette?

The medal roll should give you names of others in the same battalion - would it be worth seeing if their service records have survived?

Have you looked in the newspapers local to Lewisham to see if his death is reported there? By 1918, they probably won't give so much detailed information as they would have done earlier in the war, but there might be a snippet and/or a photograph.

Is he on any local war memorials - school, scouts hall, church, masonic etc etc?

[Merry]

Welcome to the forum Mark.

It's a bit nerve-wracking being asked not to tell you anything you already know, when we don't know the extent of that knowledge!

In case you haven't see it, there's a photo of his grave here:

http://www.twgpp.org/information.php?id=3047276

[Markkent91]

Hello everyone. thankyou very much for the kind welcome

Yes his number is G/10824,

I already have his probate entry and you are correct that his effects were £9398 5s 3d.
If you look at the probate his Uncle Edward of Hastings is also listed directly above. His effects were £ 96514 16s 3d.

I am not sure whether Edward Charles Kent left a Will. I would of thought he may of done as im sure he knew too well that he could be killed.

I shall search the http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...f-grants-wills and see if I have any luck.

[Markkent91]

Phoenix - Unfortuanetly I am not sure. I don't know when or where he was when he gained a promotion. The photograph I have of him shows him as a Lance Corporal so he must of been promoted overseas. It would be very interesting to know under what circumstances he was promoted.

I have the medal roll which shows what medals he was awarded. As he was killed I have often wondered if they were passed to a family member of his. Would not of been his parents as they died before him but maybe his brothers or sister.

I have also spent the last month contacting various churchs, libraries and archives in Lewisham and Lee. Im sure a local newspaper in Lee would list him but I am not about the promotion in the London Gazette.

I used this site http://lewishamwarmemorials.wikidot.com/home but had no luck so I contacted the UK National Inventory of War Memorials who did a search of the database they currently have. They had about 10 matches for E Kent and two of those were london based. So I contacted the churchs for confirmation but all was in vain.

I would be very much like to travel to Lewisham and lee archives but it is rather difficult to find the time at the moment. But I shall at some point.

A little bit of extra information (whether it helps or not). he enlisted in Warley, Essex and according to the 1911 census who was in Peterborough.

[Markkent91]

Kite runner,

Can the Justice department of Wills and Probates send me copies of the Will or do I have to collect it from them?

[Margaret in Burton]

Kite runner,

Can the Justice department of Wills and Probates send me copies of the Will or do I have to collect it from them?

You can apply for anyone's Will from any probate office by post. Cost £6

[Shona]

Hello Mark,

Agree with others that you should try one of the specialist WW1 forums, such as The Long, Long Trail.

I've done research on the Middlesex Regiment. Many of the 18th Batt were from public schools. If you know where he went to school, there may be a school magazine which detailed his activities in the war. The 17th Batt became known as the Footballers Battalion as they recruited many professional and amateur players. The 18th had more rugby players, though.

[Shona]

Correction, Mark

16 Batt - Public Schools
17 Batt - Footballers
18 Batt - 1st Public Works
19 Batt - 2nd Public Works

March 1918 saw the German Offensive in Flanders.

On the CWG sute, you could order the burials by date and check if there was anyone in the same battalion who died at the same time. Then check if their service records exist.

[Shona]

The 18 Battalion was part of the 33rd Division. You should be able to find plenty of info on the actions they took part in - there are a lot of sites on the Internet.

However, your relative is likely to have died following Battle of St Quentin (21-23 March) which was part of the German offensive known as Operation Michael (21 March to 5 April).

At 2am, the Germans launched a barrage on British positions followed by infantry attack at 6am. The Germans were aided by thick fog, so managed to press forward.

Hope this helps.

[kiterunner]

This is the website for the Probate Office with info on how to order a copy of a will:
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wills

[Markkent91]

Thankyou for the reply Shona, although I already know all of that information already. I should of really posted everything I knew already

When I could not find anymore information about the 18th battalion online, I contacted the middlesex regiment musuem but they barely had anything about the 18th.

I undertand the battalion were a Pioneer regiment which would be given tasks of constructing communication trenches, defenses, roads etc but could most certainly fight when needed. Seems odd to me that Edward was involved in such hard work as he was was from a very wealthy and Genteel family.
Perhaps he was conscripted?

Battle of St Quentin is something I shall look more into.

Unfortunately I do not really know where he went to school. I tried Ancestry.com but nothing I could see.

According to an extract in the Kent family bible, he was christened at St Mildreds Church in Lee in 1880.
I have in my possesion a english silver napkin ring that was given to him as a christening present with date and intials inscribed. It is a rather lovely object.

Because of this I contacted St Mildreds Church and they told me that all the church records are held at the local arcives so this will definately be a place I shall visit.

Thankyou Kiterunner for the Wills and Probate link.

[Markkent91]

I forgot to say, I was speaking to a member of the Long long trail forums fairly recently and he sent me this link. http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search1421.php

This uses the CWGC database but can carry out better searches than was previously available on the CWGC own site. (That has now been considerably upgraded and is at least now equal to GSE)

enter the Ship or Unit as "18TH BN" Date as "23/03/1918-25/03/1918" and Regiment Corps as Middlesex Regiment .

According to this he was the one of two men killed from the 18th battalion in those couple of days ther other being one LT Shaw who was in the middlsex and Northampton regiments.

This seemed rather strange that Edward was only one killed from the 18th in those couple of days as like you said the Germans were pushing on with the Spring offensive.

Perhaps he was very unlucky and was hit by a stray piece of shrapnel or maybe disturbed an unexploded shell while he was going about his duties......

[WendyPusey]

My grandfather was killed 26rg April 1918 - 4th Batn Royal Fusiliers - and I haven't been able to find his service records. So many of them have been destroyed which is a great shame as I would have loved more info.

Good luck with your search.

[Margaret in Burton]

My OH's grandfather served in WW1, he was a POW actually from 1915 and his record shows that. Unfortunately he joined the army in 1903 and called up as a reservist in 1914. The early part of his service record pre 1914 is missing. We have nothing at all about him until his marriage in 1908 and the 1911 census. Supposedly born 1885 but zilch.

Merry will guess who I'm referring to so I doubt I have to name him.

[Merry]

Marg, Only the last sentence of your post gave it away!!

[Margaret in Burton]

Marg, Only the last sentence of your post gave it away!!

:p:p:p:p

[Shona]

A bit more info which may help you, Mark.

Operation Michael/Battle of St Quentin: While the Germans concentrated their forces in attacking a 40-odd mile long line from Arras to St Quentin and Le Fere on 21 March, there were also diversionary attacks on the Lys and around Ypres. Your relative is therefore likely to have sustained his injuries as a result of these diversionary attacks.

The bombardment of the British was one of the heaviest of the entire war and reached well beyond the front line with command centres, communications and heavy artillery all affected. There were more than 7,000 casualties as a result of the bombardment.

The winter of 1917/18 had been used to improve British position and, while the work was largely completed, work was still underway in many rear positions when the attack took place on 21 March.

The 3rd Australian Casulaty Clearing Station and the 44th Casualty Clearing Station were both based at Nine Elms, Poperinge, from September 1917 to March 1918. The nusrses at the 44th specialised in dealing with abdominal wounds.

John Ward MP, who set up the 18th Battalion of the Middlesex Regiment, was a former soldier who in 1895 joined the Battersea Branch of the Social Democratic Federation - one of the most left-wing parties at the time. He also founded the Navvies, Bricklayers' Labourers and General Labourers Union in 1889 and was its general secretary.

Ward ran away from home at the age of 12, finally finding work as a navvy. Although steeped in trade union history, he did not sign the constitition of the Labour Representation Committee. He was elected to Parliament for Stoke on Trent in 1906 as an Independent Labour Liberal with huge support from the trade unions in the area.

In the First World War, the War Office decided to recruit specialist labour units to take care of civil engineering and associated works - these were the Service, Labour and Pioneer Battalions. Each BEF Division was to be alloted a Pioneer Battalion which woudl carry out necessary labour work.

John Ward MP joined the Middlesex Regiment and personally recruited four Pioneer Battalions, mainly among navvies in Staffordshire - the 18th (1st Public Works), the 19th (2nd Public Works), 26th (3rd Public Works) and the 26th (formed from the 18th, 19th and 26th). Ward was commander of the 26th Middlesex Battalion, who were nicknamed 'The Die Hards'.

The Pioneers were trained to fight, but were largely engaged in serving fighting troops by maintaining communications and transport, moving munitions, maintaining stores, building and repairing structures and fortifications - and recovering and burying war dead.

Ward lost his seat in 1929 to Labour's Lady Cynthia Mosley - the wife of Sir Oswald Mosley.

Given the background of John Ward MP and the nature of the Pioneer Battalions, could your relative have had some sort of trade union or political leanings? This may explain why he joined a public works battalion as a non-commissioned officer.

Also, check out the British and Commonwealth Military Badge Forum.

[Markkent91]

Unfortuantely I do not know much about what my Uncle did during his life. According to the 1901 Census his occupation was an Auctioneers Assistant still living in the family home. The 1911 Census reads he was livng in Peterborough with a Mrs Evangeline Bonnet(widow) as a boarder. At this point it says his occupation was Improver and Industry and service was Nurseryman ( which I assume meant a garden nurseryman.) Perhaps this could relate to the Pioneers..

His father and siblings all owned Tailoring, Haberdashery, gentleman outfitter buisnesses etc.


Do you have any Idea of where the 18th battalion may of been postioned around Ypres area ( or near enough) during the time of his death?

[Shona]

Not sure I can add much more. The Germans recaptured Hooge which is to the east of Ypres and almost reached Ypres. You could try the Ypres Battlefield Forum to see if they have any further info.

But here's a couple of additional thoughts. He enlisted in Warley in Essex. Given that in 1911, he was a nurseryman, this may explain why he enlisted in Warley.

Warley Place was the home of horticulturalist and plant collector, Ellen Willmot. The gardens of the house were well-known for their beauty. She employed about a hundred men to worked in the gardens. After Willmot died (bankrupt - ahe spent the family fortune on her plants and gardens), the house was demolished and many of the plants removed. The site is now a nature reserve.

Oxford University's First World War Poetry Digital Archive has recordings of Henry Oxley who was with the 23 Middlesex Battalion.

Also, the National Army Museum has a photo of some Duke of Cambridge (Middlesex Regiment). No one is named, though.

[Markkent91]

Now that is intertesting. A real shame that they went Bankrupt and the plants removed. Must of looked fantastic.

I shall ask around on the Ypres Forums.

Thankyou Shona.

[Shona]

From one account of her life: 'several of Willmott's gardeners left to fight in the war.'

[Joy Dean]

Unfortuantely I do not know much about what my Uncle did during his life. According to the 1901 Census his occupation was an Auctioneers Assistant still living in the family home. The 1911 Census reads he was livng in Peterborough with a Mrs Evangeline Bonnet(widow) as a boarder. At this point it says his occupation was Improver and Industry and service was Nurseryman ( which I assume meant a garden nurseryman.) Perhaps this could relate to the Pioneers..

His father and siblings all owned Tailoring, Haberdashery, gentleman outfitter buisnesses etc.


Do you have any Idea of where the 18th battalion may of been postioned around Ypres area ( or near enough) during the time of his death? I would enquire in http://www.1914-1918.net/

[Markkent91]

From one account of her life: 'several of Willmott's gardeners left to fight in the war.'

Well that sounds rather promising

Don't suppose you know an Ellen Willmot and Warley Place expert?

[Shona]

She's pretty famous as a plantswoman, so there have been books written about her. She also penned a few of her own. The Royal Horticultural Society may be able to point you in the right direction if we want to speak to someone who knows about her and her gardeners.

[annswabey]

The War Diary is at the National Archives. Not online yet, but should be by 2014, if you can wait! By the way, as he wasn't an officer, any promotion wouldn't be in the London Gazette.

WO 95/2417/5 18 Battalion Middlesex Regiment (Pioneers) 1915 Nov. - 1919 Oct.