Who was John Turnbull lived in Aberdeen 1878

[ElizabethHerts]

In October 1878 John Turnbull lived at 160 Crown Street, Aberdeen. He was writing to his friends John Dickson and his wife Eliza (née Wishart) who had just emigrated to New Zealand.

He talks about a family funeral (Eliza's grandfather James Johnston) and also a missing cousin (William MOrrison) on board a boat called the "Wennington".

The way he talks suggests he might have been more than a friend, perhaps a relative by marriage. He doesn't mention any of his immediate family by name.

I don't know his age but his friends John and Eliza Dickson were both born in 1847.

I have tried to find him in censuses, but with little luck. Can anyone else spot him or discover anything about him.

[ElizabethHerts]

I've just found a couple more references to the Turnbull family in the letters:

"we had Tomey turnbull heare on Thursday last 28th he got you adress I think he is intending writing you soon he ha grown to be a big boy now he is with his father and mother at Kelso I think I told you before that they had gone theare I saw by the peapers that they have got another son that would be a month or two since" (1882)

and more importantly

"I may tell you just now that Mr Turnbull has left Aberdeen for good he has got a situation up in Edinburgh, his wife and family have not gone away yet but intend going soon." December 1880.

However, I don't know if this is John Turnbull. I should think the people in the first paragraph are his parents and brother.

[kiterunner]

Post Office Aberdeen Directory for 1877-8 has Turnbull, John, cutter, 160 Crown Street. I'll see if I can see what year he disappears.

http://www.nls.uk/family-history/directories/post-office/index.cfm?place=Aberdeen

[kiterunner]

1878-9 still there.
1879-80 still there.
1880-1 he is at 176 Crown Street.
Then in 1881-2 the only Turnbull is A R Turnbull 103 Union Street, so it does look as though John Turnbull could be the one who moved to Edinburgh in 1880. I'll see if I can find a John Turnbull appearing in Edinburgh about then...

[ElizabethHerts]

Oooh, Kate! Well done. A trade helps. One of the letters mentions a Mrs Forbes, too.

[kiterunner]

No Turnbulls in the Edinburgh directories around then. :(

[ElizabethHerts]

Many thanks, Kate.
I wonder what he cut - cloth/textiles I suppose.

This does seem to be the correct chap.

[ElizabethHerts]

No Turnbulls in the Edinburgh directories around then. :(

Perhaps he worked for someone else so isn't listed in his own right.

[kiterunner]

There is a John Turnbull in the wills on Scotlands People who died in Edinburgh about the right time (i.e soon after he moved to Edinburgh, and then wouldn't appear in the directories) - of Taylor and Turnbull, clothiers. Got to move onto another computer but back soon...

[ElizabethHerts]

Hmm, the person from the will isn't him, I don't think.


TURNBULL JOHN
12/02/1883
OF THE FIRM OF TAYLOR & TURNBULL, CLOTHIERS, SOUTH BRIDGE, EDINBURGH,
RESIDING AT 25 SOUTH CLERK STREET THERE, D. 29/05/1882 AT EDINBURGH, TESTATE
WILL EDINBURGH SHERIFF COURT WILLSSC70/4/198


This is him in 1881:
Address: 25, South Clerk Street, St Cuthberts
TURNBULL, John Head Widower M 61 1820 Cloth Merchant Dunse Berwick
TURNBULL, Margaret Daughter Unmarried F 25 1856 Edinr Midlothian
TURNBULL, Elizabeth Sister Unmarried F 51 1830 House Keeper Galashiels Selkirk
HUTCHIESON,Eliza Servant Unmarried F17 1864 Gen Dom Serv Biggar Peebles

I don't think my John Turnbull would have been particularly wealthy. It sounded he was just scraping by in his letter.

Never mind, I'll keep looking.

[kiterunner]

It's a shame you can't search the censuses by occupation on Scotland's People.

[kiterunner]

Working backwards through the Aberdeen directories, then (again, I'll keep updating this post):

1876/7:
160 Crown Street
Alex Marr (A Pirie & Sons)
Miss Wood, milliner
Mrs Russell,
Misses Forbes, dressmaker
John Turnbull, cutter
Wm Edmond, clothier
Wm Urquhart (of M & U)
J S Valentine (N Ass Co)

Can't find him before that.

[kiterunner]

There is a Forbes family at 160 Crown Street, Aberdeen on the 1881 census (you can search by address on ancestry).

[kiterunner]

Ah, the 1875/6 Aberdeen directory has a James Turnbull, cutter, at 160 Crown St. I wonder if it's a misprint or a relative?

[ElizabethHerts]

I have tried searching by occupation "cutter" on FMP but no luck.

I wonder if the occupation of cutter ran in the family. James could be his father, perhaps.

[kiterunner]

There is a John Turnbull, foreman tailor, in Aberdeen on the 1871 census, age 37, born Crichton, Midlothian, living at 6 Hawthorn Place, with wife Isabella and children Thomas 5, Catherine 8 and Margaret 1. Isabella born Logie Pert, Forfarshire and children born Old Machar, Aberdeenshire. Thomas could be the Tommy in the letter?

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Kite, Could well be little Tommy.

I also found another family, but probably too affluent to be them.

1871 Census
Address: Chanonry Chaplainry House, Old Machar
TURNBULL, James Head Married M 43 1828 Surveyor Of Taxes Assessor Of Lands & C Minto Roxburghshire
TURNBULL, Isabella Wife MarriedF 39 1832 Surveyors Wife Little Dunkeld Perthshire
TURNBULL, John M Son M 15 1856 Scholar Kinnoul Perthshire
TURNBULL, Archibald Son M 14 1857 Scholar Kinnoul Perthshire
TURNBULL, James D Son M 11 1860 Scholar Aberdeen Aberdeenshire
TURNBULL, Willm Geo Son M 7 1864 Scholar Aberdeen Aberdeenshire
TURNBULL, Thos W Son M 5 1866 Aberdeen Aberdeenshire
TURNBULL, Alexr G Son M 3 1868 Aberdeen Aberdeenshire
MILLAR, Helen Servant Unmarried F 27 1844 Cook Errol Perthshire
JOHNMAN, Jessie Servant Unmarried F 19 1852 Nurse Perth Perthshire

[kiterunner]

Found the "foreman tailor" family on the 1881 census (on ancestry), still in Old Machar, Aberdeenshire and John isn't there, so it would fit with him moving to Edinburgh and the rest of the family following later. Isabella 36, tailoress, Cath 18, Thomas 15, Maggie 11, Jessie 9, Isabella 6, John 4, Barbara 1.

[kiterunner]

Still with the 1881 census, ancestry says there is a John Turnbull, foreman tailor, listed as a visitor at the Abbey, Holywood Palace, Canongate, Midlothian, age 45, but it says born England. I don't know what it says on the image obviously. Also Alexander B Turnbull age 17 born Edinburgh. They are with Henry Baker, keeper of Holywood Palace, and his wife Barbara.

[ElizabethHerts]

Well spotted, Kate! I'm going to buy some ScotlandsPeople credits (again!) in the next day or two and look at their marriage. It might help me discover more.

[ElizabethHerts]

Still with the 1881 census, ancestry says there is a John Turnbull, foreman tailor, listed as a visitor at the Abbey, Holywood Palace, Canongate, Midlothian, age 45, but it says born England. I don't know what it says on the image obviously. Also Alexander B Turnbull age 17 born Edinburgh. They are with Henry Baker, keeper of Holywood Palace, and his wife Barbara.

I saw that too, earlier today. One of the children was born in Edinburgh, they seem to have gone backwards and forwards.

I was wondering if Isabella was a 2nd wife. FMP have her as only 24 in 1871, with an 8 year-old child, Catherine, born in Edinburgh.

[kiterunner]

There's a public tree on ancestry which has the "foreman tailor" John down as John Wright Turnbull born 1834 Lanarkshire, with first wife being Margaret Brown and second wife Isabella Morris Johnston born 1845. Does any of that fit with your tree at all?

[kiterunner]

Ah, I see you mentioned a Johnston in your first post!

[ElizabethHerts]

Isabella was born in Laurencekirk, Kincardineshire.

[ElizabethHerts]

There's a public tree on ancestry which has the "foreman tailor" John down as John Wright Turnbull born 1834 Lanarkshire, with first wife being Margaret Brown and second wife Isabella Morris Johnston born 1845. Does any of that fit with your tree at all?

Fantastic, Kite! Now to try to piece it together - Johnston is so common a surname it might take some doing. I'll get my credits for ScotlandsPeople and see what the marriage says.

oh dear, if I enter "Morrison" or "Johnston" as the surname I get no matches!


I'm going to have to break off for an hour or so or we won't get fed and I'll have one unhappy OH! Many thanks for your work so far, Kate. It feels as if it's slowly coming together.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has the birth of Margaret Johnston Turnbull, 24 Sep 1869 at Old Machar, parents John Turnbull and Isabella Johnston Morrison.

[ElizabethHerts]

THanks, Kate, quickly popping in.

I now have a match for the Turnbull-Johnston marriage as the Ancestry tree shows 1896 but I think it is 1869!!

[ElizabethHerts]

MYSTERY SOLVED!

Thank you so much, Kate!

When I saw the Morrison - Johnston combination I had my suspicions.

The marriage certificate is slightly odd.

Isabella is given as Isabella Morrison Johnston.
However, her parents are given as John Morrison Cab Driver and Margaret Morrison ms Johnston

So logically she is Isabella Johnston Morrison and not the other way round!

Of course, all is now perfectly clear because Margaret Johnston is the sister of my 2xgt grandfather James Johnston. :)

Here she is on the 1841 Census with her future husband, the last one listed. They married in October 1841!

1841 Census (6/6/1841)
Mill of Burnthillock Banchory Devenick
James Johnston 50 Miller N
Christian Johnston 50 Y
Margaret Johnston 15 Y
James Johnston 15 U
Margaret Laurie 60 FS Y sister
William Morrison 15 Ag. Lab England
John Morrison 20 Ag. Lab. England

So John Turnbull's wife is the granddaughter of the James Johnston whose burial is mentioned. I never knew what happened to Isabella - I had her as born c. 1846 from the censuses. She's with them up to 1861 but I never found her in 1871 and I knew I had seen this marriage before but I never claimed it for her as the names were wrong!

[ElizabethHerts]

By the way, the place of marriage -

148 Crown Street, Aberdeen!

[kiterunner]

All sorted, then.