View Full Version : A challenge if anyone wants to help.
I am looking for parents of this man, and being born in Ireland is not helpful!
All the bios that come up using google just give his birth in Dublin and the fact he worked with his stepfather. I have found the stepfather's name and his mother's name, but Mary b Ireland does not help much either! I can't find the marriage of Mary to FINCH.
If we can work out how WENTWORTH-SHIELDS is a cousin, that may be useful!
BARLOW, Christopher George
born 09 Dec 1858 Dublin
died 30 Aug 1915 Bright’s disease S Paul Rectory Cooma NSW buried Goulburn Cemetery
cousin to Bishop Wentworth Francis WENTWORTH-SHEILDS
step-son of Benjamin FINCH sanitary engineer (1881) of Lambeth
born Liverpool
and Mary born c1823 Dublin;
Died unmarried
Education
Brecknock college Wales
18 Dec 1881 deacon North Queensland
24 Sep 1882 priest North Queensland
31 Oct 1891 honorary DD Lambeth
25 Jul 1891 bishop (in cathedral S Andrew Sydney) by Sydney, Grafton & Armidale, Newcastle
1861 he is in Fishguard Wales with his mother Mary Barlow, they are lodgers with Ann Harries, Mary's occupation is Lady and she says she is married.
1871 there is GC Barlow b 1858 Dublin who is a visitor in Fishguard Wales, with William and Eliza Rowlands, William is vicar of Fishguard.
1881 there is C George Barlow b c1858 Dublin who is stepson of Benjamin Finch b Liverpool, both men are Sanitary Engineers (civil) and are in Lambeth
According to Wikipedia:
Wentworth Francis Wentworth-Sheilds (sometimes known as Francis; also spelled Shields; 1867–12 September 1944) was an Anglican bishop in the first half of the 20th century.[1]
He was born in 1867 and educated at St Paul's and London University.[2] Ordained in 1899,[3] he began his career with curacies at St John the Baptist, Plumstead and St George's, Bloomsbury. In 1904 he went to Australia where he was initially Precentor of St Saviour's Cathedral, Goulburn and then Archdeacon of Wagga-Wagga. Later he was Warden of Bishop's College, Goulburn and then the second Bishop of Armidale,[4] a post he held for 13 years. On his return to England he was Warden of St Deiniol's Library, Hawarden.[5] He died on 12 September 1944.[6]
And Australian Dictionary of Biography:
Wentworth Francis Wentworth-Shields (1867-1944), Anglican bishop, was born on 2 April 1867 at Lewisham, London, son of Francis Webb Sheilds, a civil engineer with Australian experience, and his wife Adelaide, née Baker.
Francis Webb Shields was b 1821 Ireland, and Adelaide was b 1830 Ireland, so the right sort of ages to be siblings to the parents of Christopher Barlow. (Class: RG 9; Piece: 6; Folio: 77; Page: 43; GSU roll: 542555.)
And he was a civil engineer as was Finch.
So, Adelaide Baker might be the sister of Mrs Mary Barlow/Finch?
I guess Mary Barlow/Finch could have been a Baker or a Shields.
They must have been quite well to do as there are a number of Bishops in that next generation - Barlow and Wentworth-Shields who also married the daughter of a Bishop.
Having said that Barlow was ordained without a degree, and was given an honorary DD on his ordination to the Bishopric. So they were not university bound as an expectation.
Mary Barlow/Finch could have been a Baker or a Shields
Doh! lol :o
kiterunner
04-05-12, 21:57
There is a possible marriage in 1871 between Benjamin Finch and Mary Baker at St George Hanover Square... I'll see if I can check it. Other two names on the page are Christiana Couper and Alexander Harvey.
kiterunner
04-05-12, 22:06
And there was a possible John Baker / Mary Barlow marriage in 1854 in Liverpool but we can rule that out because that John Baker married Eleanor Elizabeth Swain. Just to save anyone else going down the same road! (oops, just realised that's too early anyway)
kiterunner
04-05-12, 22:09
Francis Webb Shields married Adelaide Baker 24 Jul 1860 Monkstown, Dublin, Ireland, his father Wentworth Shields, her father John Baker (from FamilySearch).
There is a possible marriage in 1871 between Benjamin Finch and Mary Baker at St George Hanover Square... I'll see if I can check it. Other two names on the page are Christiana Couper and Alexander Harvey.
Shouldn't Mary's name be Barker?
kiterunner
04-05-12, 22:36
Do you mean Barlow? Well, we don't know if she married a Baker between 1861 and her marriage to Benjamin Finch. That was the only possible marriage I could spot for Benjamin Finch, anyway, but I can't find anything to show who married whom out of those couples yet.
Do you mean Barlow?
Sorry, yes!
This is the only fit I can find that seems sensible (Christiana Couper was b 1848)
Deaths Jun 1890
Harvey Christiana 43 Watford 3a 318
If Mary was the sister of Adelaide Baker then maybe she used her maiden name when she married Benjamin Finch rather than her married Barlow name?
That would fit.
I have found Benjamin Finch in 1871 as a boarder and an engineer and he is unmarried, so that makes the marriage to Mary Baker a possibility.
Yes, she might have used her maiden name, but it would be a first for me to find such a thing at this era. (*prepares for a load of postings where others have found this to happen*) I can't see any other marriage though.
kiterunner
05-05-12, 10:37
Or it could be that she was never actually married to Mr Barlow?
Yes, but having already lied on the census and having a child named Barlow already, I would have thought she would have kept up the pretence.
However, as there doesn't seem to be any other fitting marriage in England Wales or Ireland, I guess one of the unlikely explanations may be the right one!
Unless she married Barlow but never married Benjamin Finch!
kiterunner
05-05-12, 12:44
Or it could be that she married a Mr Baker before marrying Benjamin Finch, and Christopher was only a step-cousin of Wentworth-Shields? Although I couldn't find a Mary Barlow marriage to a Baker. I don't suppose Chris is going to buy that marriage certificate, though, and I would love to know what it says! Maybe we can work out where exactly they got married by using that info on how to get it from the page number.
I can't see Mary in 1871 or Benjamin in 1861,51 or 1841.
I have to go to football shortly! :(
I was thinking Benjamin Finch wasn't a real person! lol
However...
Name: Benjamin Finch
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 30 Sep 1828
Baptism/Christening Place: BENNS GARDEN OR RENSHAW STREET PRESBYTERIAN OR UNILIVERP,LIVERPOOL,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 28 Jun 1828
Father's Name: John Finch
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Green
Found Ben with his mother in 1841 at Toxteth Park.
I realise this has nothing to do with the origonal Q. Just trying to build up the picture.
I am stuck on Mary in 1871 too.
I was hoping I would find the marriage to Finch in the London marriages, because I want to see what she said about her marriage status as well!
Christopher could have been illegitimate - it would have stopped his ordination in the UK but not necessarily in the colonies. He was ordained by Stanton who he travelled to Australia with and who is described as his life long friend.
It is a bit odd that there is no baptism for Christopher, it would probably have been in Ireland, but there are Dublin records on line. He was living in the Fishguard Vicarage on one census so you would think he was baptised. Unless it was not as Barlow.........
Are the Dublin church records available Catholic or Protestant? I'm assuming he would not have been Catholic. Have you looked for Christopher Baker/Sheilds? :o
All 3 names don't find anything obvious, but I guess he could be George and impossible to identify!
I guess that I am one step on from the published bios in that I can give him a mothers name and a stepfathers name.
A pity that they were not more wealthy so that the parents marriage may have made the newspaper reports, but there is nothing there.
Mary from Italy
05-05-12, 23:05
I know it doesn't help with your genealogy questions, but I thought it was interesting that he was the clergyman who married Daisy Bates and Breaker Morant:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=P_8KgFI92e4C&pg=PA21&dq=%22Christopher+George+BARLOW%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_66lT5_zC8r-4QStkNDHCA&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Christopher%20George%20BARLOW&f=false
Or it could be that she married a Mr Baker before marrying Benjamin Finch, and Christopher was only a step-cousin of Wentworth-Shields? Although I couldn't find a Mary Barlow marriage to a Baker. I don't suppose Chris is going to buy that marriage certificate, though, and I would love to know what it says! Maybe we can work out where exactly they got married by using that info on how to get it from the page number.
I don't know how to do that for marriages, but I did notice something about the venue for their marriage....
Their page number is 554. Every time there is a new venue in the indexes it should start on an odd number page. Sometimes if the previous venue has happened to complete up to and including the whole of a even number page then it won't be obvious the venue has changed, but in this case we have.....
(I randomly started looking from page 540)
Four name matches per page up to page 551
no names on 552 (ie a venue ended on 551)
553 four names (ie start of new venue)
554 four names including the Baker/Finch marriage
555 no names
556 no names
557 four names (so, start of new venue. I don't know why this venue didn't start on 555, but I'm glad it didn't otherwise it might have looked like the same venue as the Baker/Finch marriage)
So, it looks likely the only people to use the same venue as Baker/Finch this quarter were the other couple on 554 and the two couples on 553. In total these people:
Marriages Jun 1871
Arroyave Georgina Emma De St Geo H Sq 1a 553
De Arroyave Georgina E St Geo H Sq 1a 553
Lopes George Ludlow St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 553
Lyall Mary Ann St Geo H Sq 1a 553
WALLIS Walter St Geo H Sq 1a 553
Marriages Jun 1871
Baker Mary St Geo H Sq 1a 554
COUPER Christiana St Geo H Sq 1a 554
Finch Benjamin St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 554
Harvey Alexander St Geo H Sq 1a 554
Helpfully, the Lopes/Arroyave marriage has various newspaper notices.....
The Morning Post Tuesday, April 04, 1871 states the marriage took place 1st April at All Saints, Ennismore Place and the Trewman's Exeter Flying Post or Plymouth and Cornish Advertiser Wednesday, April 12, 1871 says it took place in Knightsbridge.
I think the actual address should be (from a 1903 list)
All Saints, Ennismore Gardens, Knightsbridge
So now we know where the Finch/Baker marriage took place (probably anyway), but we don't know if they are the right people! lol
If the name Baker wasn't so commonplace I would feel the need to investigate this lol!!
Re the building of All Saints church:
Building began in September 1848, with George Baker & Son of Lambeth as the contractor.
:d
kiterunner
06-05-12, 08:46
Well done, Merry!
kiterunner
06-05-12, 09:40
Looks like the parish registers for All Saints, Ennismore Gardens, Knightsbridge, are held at City of Westminster Archives Centre.
Are those the records that Ancestry are supposed to be getting later this year?
kiterunner
06-05-12, 10:37
Findmypast are doing the Westminster records but they don't seem to have that parish online yet. But it's impossible to find out which parishes they have actually done as far as I can see (there are two different lists, and they can't both be right!)
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