Ann Garrett Grout

[Jenthec]

I'm Looking for help with locating any info about Ann Garrett Grout. This person is the eldest daughter of Charles Grout and Ann Garrett m 1842. Ann Garrett Grout was born Apr-Jun Q 1843 in Barnet, Msex. She reamins with the family and is with them in the 1851 Census but she seems to have disappeared by the 1861 Census. I have been unable so far to locate her on any further census(s), marriage records or death records..... Has anyone out there any ideas/suggestions??? Thanks. :)

[kiterunner]

She is just listed as Ann Grout on the GRO birth index, so may well be just Ann Grout on her marriage or death registration, which could make it hard to pick her out. Is the middle name Garrett taken from her baptism?

[kiterunner]

The family is in Banbury, Oxfordshire, on the 1851 census, just so we know where to start looking! And then in 1861 the parents Charles and Ann are in Bexley, Kent. Also, in 1861 they have a 7-year-old daughter born Fleet Street, London, so they must have moved from Banbury to London around 1852-1854.

[kiterunner]

Is she the Ann Grout listed on FamilySearch as being christened 11 Jun 1843 at Chipping Barnet, Hertfordshire, parents Charles and Ann? If so, then where does the middle name Garrett come from, please?

[kiterunner]

There is an Ann Grout death Oct-Dec 1853 West London, which would be the registration district for Fleet Street. But no age on the death index in those days.

[Merry]

There is an Ann Grout death Oct-Dec 1853 West London, which would be the registration district for Fleet Street. But no age on the death index in those days.

That's the death I had pencilled in for her, but am not getting the cert as she is too distant on my tree.

[Merry]

If so, then where does the middle name Garrett come from, please?


It's her mmn, not her name.

[Jenthec]

Thanks folks for the above - I've always had her listed as Ann Garrett Grout, after her mother's maiden name but can't find any written evidence for including the Garrett in her name right now... maybe it was passed on to me by an earlier family historian?? Unfortunately there are too many Ann Grout's out there to be certain which one might have been her, married or died after the 1851 census.... thanks.

[Merry]

Here's how I came about my pencilling in!

There's only one possible marriage likely before 1861, but the Ann who married Seth Bull was b in the eary 1830s in Great Easton, Essex.

I can't find our Ann single in 1861.

In case she was hiding in 1861.....There are only two marriages between 1861 and 1871 - one in Norwich for Anna Maria Grout, but she would appear to have been born in Erpingham district in Norfolk.

The Ann Grout who married in 1869 had father John Grout on her marriage cert (LMA) and she and her husband are living with her parents in 1871. (interestingly, her father is another sadler - John Kent Grout!)

So, it would seem most likely she did die and more likely before 1861.

If I look at deaths between 1851 and 1861 and the couties she might most sensibly have died in, given where she had relatives (Oxfordshire, Middlesex, London, Essex and Surrey) then there are seven to choose from.

Deaths Mar 1853
Grout Ann Islington 1b 132 This one was aged 26 (LMA)

Deaths Dec 1853
Grout Ann Lambeth 1d 215 This one was aged 24 (LMA)
Grout Ann W London 1c 58 This is where her parents were living

Though the next four, below, are in the counties where she had ties, I'm not aware of any family in these actual districts. I think I did also check the NBI for these areas, but have forgotten if I was able to eliminate any more (and I'd have to get out of bed to recheck that!!):

Deaths Jun 1855
Grout Ann Epping 4a 25 This one may be the child born in 1854. Another Ann was born the following year.

Deaths Mar 1857
GROUT Ann Newington 1d 159

Deaths Sep 1859
GROUT Ann Dunmow 4a 251

Deaths Mar 1860
Grout Ann W Ham 4a 10

It's unlikely she was ever a servant, so we can probably exclude her living with an unknown family.

A similar process can be worked through between 1861 and 1865 (there were no deaths to fit between 1866 and 1871.)

Deaths Jun 1864
GROUT Ann Stepney 1c 369 There are three Ann Grout's living in Stepney in 1861 including an old lady in workhouse, who may well have never gone anywhere else.

Deaths Mar 1865
GROUT Ann Epsom 2a 15 This one was aged 83 (LMA)

Deaths Jun 1865
GROUT Ann Mile End 1c 401

Deaths Sep 1865
Grout Ann Lambeth 1d 207 This one may be the child registered for birth the same Q.


Obviously much of this is inconclusive without the certs!

[Jenthec]

Deaths Mar 1853
Grout Ann Islington 1b 132 This one was aged 26 (LMA)
This one I can eliminate as I ordered this cert in the hope that it was THE one... this person was aged 26 which made her born in 1827 and with a John Grout in attendance as informant. Not necessarily a husband. Her occupation was Housekeeper. That takes us back to the 1853 death in West London whihc you have 'pencilled' - I would tend to agree with you Merry.

[Jenthec]

I'll think about ordering some certs after my trip, unless - can one go to the GRO and get certs on the day or is it best to order online? Australian death certs show place of birth, parents names if known, marriage details, list of children and burial details.....most helpful IF accurate..... but I note that British death certs just give basic details of death, occupation and name and residence of informant.....I think that is why I have hesitated to purchase death certs previously (apart from the cost).

[Merry]

If this cert for 1853 turns out to be "the one" it would normally tell you the name and occupation of Ann's father as she was a child at death. UK death certificates for married or widowed women generally have info about their husband, but by no means always, depending on what the informant knew.

I have many death certs that don't help with identifying whether it's the right individual or not! The trouble is, you don't know what information the certificate will have until it's in your hand!!

I don't think you can purchase certificates from the GRO in person, or at least if you can it would probably take several days for them to issue the certificate (did you realise the GRO isn't in London, it's in Southport, which is Merseyside). Every local office is different in what they can achieve.

[Jenthec]

Thanks again. I'll wait until trip is over then order some online. I've done that before and it is quite quick.
Wish I had time to meet you but this trip is quite busy.... if ever you come to Australia....????
Jenny

[Merry]

I hate flying!! Am going on a two hour flight in a few weeks and even that leaves me jittery!

I hope you have a lovely visit. :)

[Jenthec]

"Grout Ann W London 1c 58 This is where her parents were living" BINGO - I ordered this certificate and it is her - Ann Grout, 10 yo daughter of Charles Grout, Coffee House Keeper @ Fleet Street, St Bride's West London. Cause of death was Simple Fever over 8 days. This is the address we have for him in another piece of information. Charles the father was both a Coffee House Keeper and a Saddler. Thanks to all. Jenny

[Merry]

Oh, I'm so glad that turned out to be the right certificate. Poor little Ann.