Robert Cousins - transported for 7 years 1817?

[Rachel A]

I've had a sort of a breakthrough on my Cousins line, by finding a baptism, on Ancestry, in Kensington in 1816, which is possibly my great x3 grandfather William Cousins. The father is Robert Cousins, lamp manufacturer. I found a bankruptcy in 1815 of a Robert Cousins, patent lamp and lustre manufacturer, of Wigmore Street, London on British library Newspapers.

Also found a burial on Ancestry of a 35 year old Robert Cousins in May 1817 - 'late of King's Bench'... I found a newspaper article LATER that year about a Robert Cousins who was sentenced by the King's Bench for transportation for 7 years for fraud.

Clearly we're talking about at least two Robert Cousins here, who may or not be related to me (although bizarrely both dealt with by the King's Bench in 1817).

I was hoping someone could help me unravel this please... I was hoping I would find a record mentioning his wife, Ann, and son, William, so that I can make a connection?

Thanks for reading :)

[Langley Vale Sue]

I have found a marriage by banns in St Martin in the Field, Westminster for a Robert Cousins and Ann Goddard (both of this Parish) on 22 November 1809. Witnesses James Christie & Jane Goddard. Unfortunately it doesn't give Robert's occupation.

[Langley Vale Sue]

There is also a Robert Cousins of about the same age sentenced at the Old Bailey on 21 August 1843 to 7 years transportation for embezzlement! Surely not the same man who was transported in 1817 for fraud. ;)

[kiterunner]

The one who was sentenced 2 Dec 1817 for fraud was aged 38, if that's any help (from the UK Prison Hulks database, also on ancestry.)

[Merry]

Had the time frame between the burial in May and the trial in Dec been shorter I would have wondered if the prisioner they buried in May was actually someone else with the wrong paperwork! However, I don't think people sat around awaiting trial for months on end in those days.

[Merry]

I see the crime committed by the one convicted in December did not take place until a year after June 1816, so after the burial of the other man.

[Mary from Italy]

The 1843 trial's on the Old Bailey site:

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-2478-18430821&div=t18430821-2478#highlight

In case it comes in useful, the person defrauded, Daniel Walters, says "The prisoner was my clerk and town-traveller for seventeen or eighteen years ... he married a cousin of my first wife's".

The Robert Cousins on the prison hulk in 1816 doesn't appear to have been actually transported, but I have no idea what happened to him. In the "How and when disposed of" column it says "Dis'd 29 Oct 1821 F/C", but I don't know what F/C means.

If he'd been released on that date, it would be possible for him to have worked for Daniel Walters for 17/18 years before the 2nd trial.

[Rachel A]

Many thanks all :)

I've just had enough credits to look at the first prison hulk record - that does appear to be the Robert Cousins convicted in 1817. Looking at the search results the one in 1843 was born around the same year, so perhaps he is the same one. Hardly a reformed character then. So was he transported in 1843? Although still not sure if this is my man???? :o

[Rachel A]

Been looking at The Times on my local library website and see that there's a notice to the creditors of a Robert Cousins - patent lamp and lustre manufacturer of Wigmore St on 29th Oct 1819, suggesting that he is not the Robert Cousins languishing on the prison hulk for fraud...

[Rachel A]

Funny though that Wigmore St is just to the north of Oxford St, where the Robert Cousins convicted of fraud was said to trade from... :confused:

[Rachel A]

Hmmm... been looking at the 1841 despite having no more credits left - 63 year old Robert Cousins married to Mary (and not Ann) is living in Streatham, London, and born c1778... so this does appear to be the one named in the subsequent conviction...

[Merry]

Might Ann have not lived long? I couldn't see any siblings for William.

[Rachel A]

Yes you're right, Merry :)

I thought perhaps if he died in May 1817 that may be the reason... but then Sue found a marriage in 1809, so plenty of opportunity for older siblings ... :confused: :D

I would love to say that it's the same man (as well as mine)... I like family gossip! :d

[Merry]

I'm confused about whether we're saying he died in 1817 or is the one who survived? (or we don't know which??!). or is there a third man?!! (I note that considering we have at least two Roerts, there are no baps for any in London around 1780.)

[Rachel A]

I'm confused too!! :d

There's at least two Robert Cousins discussed here... I'm just trying to unravel who's who :confused:

Although saying that, if the baptism is the correct one and he is a lamp manufacturer, then the bankruptcy ties in well and the fraud/prison hulk Robert Cousins (as well as the one who died in 1817) is a red heron :)

Another thing which ties in well is that his son William named his second son Robert (his first William, also the name of his FIL) :)

The one I found in 1841 appears to be the one who was convicted in 1843, so Robert Cousins, bankrupt lamp manufacturer appear to be deceased by then (that's if they're not one and the same)

BTW William Cousins married Harriet Holbrow in 1837... just prior to civil registration, so I don't have a note of his father and whether he is decd.

:)

[Rachel A]

It's also possible that he wasn't born in London... Harriet Holbrow and her family came from Suffolk.

[Merry]

It's also possible that he wasn't born in London... Harriet Holbrow and her family came from Suffolk.

I thought William was born in London? Didn't I see him on a census? (Oh, perhaps you meant Robert?!)

[Rachel A]

Yes, sorry, I meant Robert :d

What I meant was there's a pattern of how my ancestors came to London to work, rather then born and breed there for generations (and left for the suburbs/countryside within a few generations). Noticed the same with my cousins paternal line too :)

[Mary from Italy]

(I note that considering we have at least two Roerts, there are no baps for any in London around 1780.)

There's a Robert Cousens, son of Robert and Ann, baptised at St Botolph's, Bishopsgate in Nov 1776.

[Rachel A]

Thanks Mary, that is a possible (but for which Robert? :d)

You would think that the name Cousins would be easy to find, but there's several variations (and that's before the mistranscriptions).

[Margaret in Burton]

Just throwing in the fact that my GG Grandfather Charles Newey was sentenced to 7 years transportation in 1838 and sent to the Leviathan Hulk. He is still there on the 1841 census and was subsequently pardoned in February 1842.
He never left this country and married in Exton, Rutland in 1846.

Could a similar thing have happened to your man? The details about the pardon were found by Ann Swabey at the National Archives.