Charlotte Irwin

[Asa]

I'm also having problems with a Charlotte. Can't find her in 1881 and her father's a bit of a mystery (to me anyway:))

Charlotte Ann(e) Irwin was born c1872 Gray's Inn Lane/ Holborn, London. She obviously appears to be the Charlotte Ann Irwin born Sep qtr 1872 Hoborn.

In 1891, she's boarding in Chelsea and in the July marries William Trott at St Stephen Walworth Common. Her father is E Irwin deceased, no occ.

When she remarries in 1925, Charlotte's father appears as Walter Irwin, deceased, piano forte maker.

There is a Walter Irwin, piano forte maker, in Pancras in 1881 but he's only 24 and single. There's also a George Irwin, piano forte porter, in Westminster in 1881 but no Charlotte or similar.

Any ideas?

[kiterunner]

I suppose the obvious one would be to pay for the birth certificate, but I'll see if I can find anything else.

[Asa]

Thanks Kite - I am trying to avoid buying it :-)

[kiterunner]

I couldn't find anything (yet), sorry.

[Merry]

I do think there is probably something fundamentally wrong with the info for walter in 1881 as he appears nowhere else that I can see, so i wondered if (possibly amongst other things) his age is not right?

[Asa]

That's what I was feeling, Merry. I did find some other Irwins from the same area but can't tie them in with Charlotte.

Charlotte's a step great great grandmother so I expect I'll have to give in and buy the cert at sometime but I've a lot I want before that.

[Merry]

I can't help but be suspicoius of that family living at 89 Euston St, Somerstown, St Pancras in 1881 and at 3 Raymond Buildings, Gray's Inn in 1871.

There's granny, Charlotte Irwin, widow (of Thomas Irwin) b about 1805 in Walton on Thames Surrey. Her daughter, Mary b 1836 and granddaughter Amelia b 1860.

I can't find Charlotte or Mary before 1861 and their first appearance shows Mary and Amelia with the surname Fisher, Charlotte a widow and Mary a married woman. However, I've not seen a marriage for Mary and her daughter Amelia was registered Amelia Fisher Irwin in 1860.

In 1871 and 1881 they are all called Irwin and Charlotte and Mary are both widows! It just 'feels' possible that Mary might be the mother of a second daughter and they were in the right area in 1871, but I can't explain why Charlotte doesn't show with them in 1881. (unless the enumerator got in a muddle with having two Charlottes listed?)

Another minor connection is that Charlotte and Thomas Irwin seem to have have had a daughter named Charlotte Ann (bap on FS) back in 1831, but I can't see that she lived until 1837. Maybe if your Charlotte was Mary's daughter perhaps she was named for Mary's sister?

*sets up collection pot for the birth cert*

[Asa]

Merry, I've looked at these and *felt* she should belong - hadn't seen the Charlotte Ann though. Am not about today but will have a look at this properly tomorrow. Thank you

[Merry]

Charlotte Ann's infant burial is on Ancestry.

[Asa]

I'm going to have to get the certificate I think. Charlotte's husband was a servant in Oxford Street when a second daughter Julia was born - can't find her - but Mary was baptised from St Pancras Workhouse. Although I can't find Thomas or Charlotte (m 1829 St Mary Bryanston Sq) before 1861, I think that must be Mary in 1851 as the niece of Mary Murray widow and annuitant of Regents Park, born c1804 Walton. Mary and Amelia are living on their own means in 1901.

[Merry]

m 1829 St Mary Bryanston Sq

Is there a matching Murray marriage?

[Asa]

No :S Doesn't appear to be a Mary Tanner of the right age at Walton either though Charlotte is there. Unfortunately, Mary doesn't have a husband even as far back as 1841 and or any other relations. Also, she disappointed me by living long after 1858 because a will on Ancestry would have been nice :)

[Merry]

I don't think this Mary is that far off for age, and the same parents as Charlotte:

name: Mary Tanner
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 08 Nov 1801
baptism/christening place: WALTON ON THAMES,SURREY,ENGLAND
birth date: 19 Oct 1801
father's name: Samuel Tanner
mother's name: Mary
indexing project (batch) number: C04038-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 814226

[Asa]

Thank you, Merry :) I was using the new site and obviously haven't got the hang of it as firmly as I thought...the only Mary I got was in 1792.

[Asa]

I've got the birth certificate and it looks like you were right Merry:-) Charlotte's father is James Irwin a pianoforte maker and the mother and informant Mary Irwin formerly Tanner - her mother's maiden name.

[Merry]

lol That's good. Makes me wonder what they had done with Charlotte jr that first census though :confused: (maybe you could send a bill for £9.25 back to them in your time machine?!)

[Asa]

Me too:-). I'll add this nine quid to my long list of grudges against my ancestors... thanks for you help.