Thames Watermen and Lightermen question

[kiterunner]

I was just idly searching for any Bristows in the Thames Watermen and Lightermen database on FMP in case there were any of my relatives on there, and I've found something most unexpected.

Robert Salter Bristow from Lower Thames Street, bound 8 Nov 1904, master James Frank Cripps, freed 14 May 1907. (Source binding records 1692-1949.)

Merry will no doubt recognise the name - my great-grandfather was Robert Salter Bristow, born in 1862 and he was a Master Mariner by 1901/2, and I thought, tended to sail on long sea voyages. But I've never come across another Robert Salter Bristow - could this one be the same one? Why would a Master Mariner in his forties be bound apprentice as a Thames waterman / lighterman? I think Lower Thames Street would be a business address, so I can't cross-check it against where my Robert was living. My Robert's ancestors were lightermen but that's going back quite a few generations before him.

Any explanations or suggestions welcome!

[Lindsay]

It does sound unlikely, doesn't it? Maybe he had a son/nephew called Robert where the middle name was omitted on the birth reg/baptism?

[kiterunner]

If so then I would be extremely interested to find out about him! I see that on the Docklands Ancestors website you can order something called an Apprenticeship Affidavit for £3 (it says "This will show his date of birth and baptism and the parish he was born in.") also they have a CD for £4.95 of the Affidavit Birth Proof Index 1898-1949 and another CD for £4.95 of Register of Contract Licences 1865-1926 (Vol 08) ("This index relates to over aged boys receiving a limited licence")

Would one of these be likely to include him, do you think, and which should I try first?

[Lindsay]

I'd probably try the Apprenticeship Affidavit first, although I'm not an expert on Thames watermen!

Would it be worth emailing Docklands Ancestors and asking which one they'd recommend for what you want? I've always found them very helpful.

[Merry]

Very odd. I wondered if there was something crazy about the dates, but as James Frank Cripps lived 1855-1915 I can't see how that could be.

[Olde Crone]

Wild thoughts - do you think it might just have been a formality, necessary in order to allow him to do a job which otherwise should only have been done by a Thames waterman? Once he'd done that job he was released from his "apprenticeship".

As I said - just a thought. I have no idea how strict the Thames Watermen brotherhood was!

OC

[kiterunner]

I was wondering the same thing, OC. I've ordered the apprenticeship affidavit and will eagerly await it!

[kiterunner]

I've had a reply and apparently he was articled for 2 years to obtain a limited licence, which makes a lot more sense.

He gave the right date of birth but apparently he gave his birthplace as Penge, Surrey, which is where he was baptised, but he was born at Elmers End, Kent, so I shall have another look for him on the censuses that he's missing from (1881 and 1911), in case he said Surrey instead of Kent on either of those. (Though most likely he was at sea on a foreign-registered boat both times.)

[Joy Dean]

I've had a reply and apparently he was articled for 2 years to obtain a limited licence, which makes a lot more sense.

He gave the right date of birth but apparently he gave his birthplace as Penge, Surrey, which is where he was baptised, but he was born at Elmers End, Kent, so I shall have another look for him on the censuses that he's missing from (1881 and 1911), in case he said Surrey instead of Kent on either of those. (Though most likely he was at sea on a foreign-registered boat both times.)

Elmers End, Beckenham is very close to Penge. (I was born in Beckenham.)

[kiterunner]

Yes, I know that, thanks, Joy. I wondered why he had his birthplace corrected on his birth certificate in 1912 (from Elmore End to Elmers End) if he needed his birth certificate in 1904 but I guess he showed his baptism certificate instead.

[borobabs]

Kate do you know that Parishregisters does a lot about Thames Watermen

[kiterunner]

Yes, thanks, Babs. That's where I got the information about the date and place of birth from. Also they supply the databases to FMP.

[borobabs]

Just the person who runs it there G Grandfather and lot family where them as well sothey have big interest like there facebook page and you will see stuff as soon as they find it